4 ms·

Organized religion and specifically Christianity have provided moral and organizational structures that have enriched human existence, knowledge and expression,

Organized religion and specifically Christianity have provided moral and organizational structures that have enriched human existence, knowledge and expression, perhaps more than any other force besides free market capitalism. The Catholic Church isn’t flawless, but its benefits to the human race far outweigh its costs. I’m an unbending agnostic, but I sometimes feel like I should go to church anyway, just to contribute to the social capital that Christianity generates.

ineedasername 8y ago
All of the things gained that you mention could have been achieved without the massive & economically draining cathedral structures though.
- i_am_nomad 8y ago
  Logically speaking, yes, the cathedrals don’t provide goods and services (in this case, shelter and storage) that are commensurate with their cost. A productive society in theory has no need of them. But we humans are emotional and irrational, and sometimes you need the grandiose and the absurd to motivate us to greatness - there’s just no getting around that. Similarly, I’d prefer a world without nail salons - logically speaking. To me, they’re pointless and stupidly wasteful, and here in California they’re everywhere. Yet thousands if not millions of people love to have their nails done. It makes them happy and gives them joy in a world that all too often shows its claws. So even if I had the power to banish them, I wouldn’t. I genuinely believe they make the world a better and more productive place. Just like cathedrals.
  - ineedasername 8y ago
    You have a good point, but I do wonder if we might not be able to have both-- something that is both grandiose & inspiring and also beneficial in a practical way. I think of the Roman aqueducts as an example, or even the Large Hadron Collider as a modern example, or some of the worlds largest sky scrapers as a more visible example. And as I think about it, it's not like the costs to build the Notre Dame cathedral were completely taken out of the economy, they would have gone to pay workers and suppliers that added to the economy, so I suppose I should temper my views with such thoughts.

ineedasername 8y ago

All of the things gained that you mention could have been achieved without the massive & economically draining cathedral structures though.

i_am_nomad 8y ago
Logically speaking, yes, the cathedrals don’t provide goods and services (in this case, shelter and storage) that are commensurate with their cost. A productive society in theory has no need of them. But we humans are emotional and irrational, and sometimes you need the grandiose and the absurd to motivate us to greatness - there’s just no getting around that. Similarly, I’d prefer a world without nail salons - logically speaking. To me, they’re pointless and stupidly wasteful, and here in California they’re everywhere. Yet thousands if not millions of people love to have their nails done. It makes them happy and gives them joy in a world that all too often shows its claws. So even if I had the power to banish them, I wouldn’t. I genuinely believe they make the world a better and more productive place. Just like cathedrals.
- ineedasername 8y ago
  You have a good point, but I do wonder if we might not be able to have both-- something that is both grandiose & inspiring and also beneficial in a practical way. I think of the Roman aqueducts as an example, or even the Large Hadron Collider as a modern example, or some of the worlds largest sky scrapers as a more visible example. And as I think about it, it's not like the costs to build the Notre Dame cathedral were completely taken out of the economy, they would have gone to pay workers and suppliers that added to the economy, so I suppose I should temper my views with such thoughts.