4 ms·

I still think it's a little bit bizarre that Microsoft now owns both Atom and VS Code. Surely it can't make sense in the long run to keep both of them going.

by msvan 7y ago

nnq 7y ago
...what Microsoft really owns is Github! Each editor appeals to a different class of users. As long as they make sure they both integrate better with Github than with competition (GitLab, Butbucket etc.), then they bring and keep users to their GitHub platform! But if some of Atom's "hackability spirit" would spill over to VSCode we'd appreciate it ;) It may be significantly more usable, but it lacks that "man, it feels just feels hackily good, like an Emacs for the 21st century" of Atom.
meesles 7y ago
Definitely a little bizarre, but I could justify it if needed: Atom caters more to the lightweight editor crowd (along with Sublime) VSCode will continue to deeply integrate with intellisense and typed languages to become a 'new' Visual Studio. It's more of an IDE (like RubyMine) I find myself wanting VSCode for some specific tasks or projects, but I am not close to considering switching to it as my primary editor.
- fermentation 7y ago
  VSCode does seem to fit that (increasingly less of a) niche for writing JS with IDE features, but it really feels out-of-place as a C++ IDE.
  - richardwhiuk 7y ago
    It's relatively good for Rust.
    - waddlesworth 7y ago
      Yeah, I use Atom for JS and VSCode for Rust.
- saagarjha 7y ago
  I have found Visual Studio Code to be more lightweight than Atom, resource-wise. Unless you are talking about lightweight in the sense of features?
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - meesles 7y ago
    Resource consumption is less of a concern to me than general 'snappiness'. Since I have a bunch of RAM, go ahead and use it all if I can have a good experience. I don't actually use Atom, though I use Sublime full time. My biggest reason for not being able to use Visual Studio is that all functions, be it fuzzy search, regular text search, navigating tabs, even entering a character carries the load of the VSCode IDE. It must parse each character for chances to present additional information, which is great if that's what you want. Subjectively, I find VSCode too laggy to work at my usual pace.
    - bitwize 7y ago
      Atom is definitely NOT an improvement in that regard. Microsoft optimized the shit out of the parsing bits of VSCode, moving as much as they could into C++ Node extensions for speed and responsiveness. As Electron apps go, VSCode is tense nearly to the point of rupture. Atom has made great strides, but afaik is still not there yet.
azhenley 7y ago
I agree that it is strange. I use VS Code for coding but my students apply their research to Atom plugins since it is much more hackable. If only they would open VS Code up a bit more...
- deadcat 7y ago
  Vscode is perfectly hackable and open, can you be more specific?
  - azhenley 7y ago
    From what I have tried, VS Code doesn't allow access to the DOM or give much of an API to modify the visual layer. This makes it very difficult to draw visualizations on top of the editor. It also does not allow plugins to go beyond the standard tab-document metaphor. For example, students of mine tried to re-implement Patchworks [1] as a VS Code plugin. Didn't seem feasible. They have been very successful in building it in Atom though. As another example, I tried to make a tool that displays a call graph visualization on top of the editor [2]. But again, this was easy in Atom but I couldn't figure it out in VS Code. Please point me to any documentation or examples of how to implement features like those. [1] https://youtu.be/GwcxDZT3pXE https://youtu.be/GwcxDZT3pXE [2] http://web.eecs.utk.edu/~azh/pubs/Henley2018bDissertation.pdf http://web.eecs.utk.edu/~azh/pubs/Henley2018bDissertation.pd... Figure 36
  - namelosw 7y ago
    It's quite hackable but not like Atom or Emacs. You can find some plugins that could make Atom seems completely different, but most of the VSCode image you can find on the internet remains similar. Just like with Emacs you can rewrite Emacs itself. And all of the changes in Atom do not require restarting, while some of the VSCode plugins require to restart the code editor (but might explain a little bit why VSCode is faster).
nickv 7y ago
I find it so interesting that whenever there is a HN post about VS Code nobody mentions Atom but it's guaranteed that the top post for any Atom HN post references how Microsoft own s both. It really shows how far VS Code has come in terms of developer mindshare.
- metildaa 7y ago
  It seems more like fear among Atom's users that Microsoft will decide to kill Atom or let it slowly slide into irrelevancy. VS Code is slowly eating the classic Visual Studio userbase IMO.
  - bzbz 7y ago
    Not just visual studio. There are definitely _tons_ of users who moved from Atom, Sublime, Brackets, or even Emacs/Vim to VS Code. I know all of the above. Don’t know any VS users other than former professor, and he definitely hasn’t switched to VS Code.

I still think it's a little bit bizarre that Microsoft now owns both Atom and VS Code. Surely it can't make sense in the long run to keep both of them going.

by msvan 7y ago

I still think it's a little bit bizarre that Microsoft now owns both Atom and VS Code. Surely it can't make sense in the long run to keep both of them going.

nnq 7y ago

...what Microsoft really owns is Github! Each editor appeals to a different class of users. As long as they make sure they both integrate better with Github than with competition (GitLab, Butbucket etc.), then they bring and keep users to their GitHub platform! But if some of Atom's "hackability spirit" would spill over to VSCode we'd appreciate it ;) It may be significantly more usable, but it lacks that "man, it feels just feels hackily good, like an Emacs for the 21st century" of Atom.

meesles 7y ago

Definitely a little bizarre, but I could justify it if needed: Atom caters more to the lightweight editor crowd (along with Sublime) VSCode will continue to deeply integrate with intellisense and typed languages to become a 'new' Visual Studio. It's more of an IDE (like RubyMine) I find myself wanting VSCode for some specific tasks or projects, but I am not close to considering switching to it as my primary editor.

fermentation 7y ago
VSCode does seem to fit that (increasingly less of a) niche for writing JS with IDE features, but it really feels out-of-place as a C++ IDE.
- richardwhiuk 7y ago
  It's relatively good for Rust.
  - waddlesworth 7y ago
    Yeah, I use Atom for JS and VSCode for Rust.
saagarjha 7y ago
I have found Visual Studio Code to be more lightweight than Atom, resource-wise. Unless you are talking about lightweight in the sense of features?
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- meesles 7y ago
  Resource consumption is less of a concern to me than general 'snappiness'. Since I have a bunch of RAM, go ahead and use it all if I can have a good experience. I don't actually use Atom, though I use Sublime full time. My biggest reason for not being able to use Visual Studio is that all functions, be it fuzzy search, regular text search, navigating tabs, even entering a character carries the load of the VSCode IDE. It must parse each character for chances to present additional information, which is great if that's what you want. Subjectively, I find VSCode too laggy to work at my usual pace.
  - bitwize 7y ago
    Atom is definitely NOT an improvement in that regard. Microsoft optimized the shit out of the parsing bits of VSCode, moving as much as they could into C++ Node extensions for speed and responsiveness. As Electron apps go, VSCode is tense nearly to the point of rupture. Atom has made great strides, but afaik is still not there yet.

azhenley 7y ago

I agree that it is strange. I use VS Code for coding but my students apply their research to Atom plugins since it is much more hackable. If only they would open VS Code up a bit more...

deadcat 7y ago
Vscode is perfectly hackable and open, can you be more specific?
- azhenley 7y ago
  From what I have tried, VS Code doesn't allow access to the DOM or give much of an API to modify the visual layer. This makes it very difficult to draw visualizations on top of the editor. It also does not allow plugins to go beyond the standard tab-document metaphor. For example, students of mine tried to re-implement Patchworks [1] as a VS Code plugin. Didn't seem feasible. They have been very successful in building it in Atom though. As another example, I tried to make a tool that displays a call graph visualization on top of the editor [2]. But again, this was easy in Atom but I couldn't figure it out in VS Code. Please point me to any documentation or examples of how to implement features like those. [1] https://youtu.be/GwcxDZT3pXE https://youtu.be/GwcxDZT3pXE [2] http://web.eecs.utk.edu/~azh/pubs/Henley2018bDissertation.pdf http://web.eecs.utk.edu/~azh/pubs/Henley2018bDissertation.pd... Figure 36
- namelosw 7y ago
  It's quite hackable but not like Atom or Emacs. You can find some plugins that could make Atom seems completely different, but most of the VSCode image you can find on the internet remains similar. Just like with Emacs you can rewrite Emacs itself. And all of the changes in Atom do not require restarting, while some of the VSCode plugins require to restart the code editor (but might explain a little bit why VSCode is faster).

nickv 7y ago

I find it so interesting that whenever there is a HN post about VS Code nobody mentions Atom but it's guaranteed that the top post for any Atom HN post references how Microsoft own s both. It really shows how far VS Code has come in terms of developer mindshare.

metildaa 7y ago
It seems more like fear among Atom's users that Microsoft will decide to kill Atom or let it slowly slide into irrelevancy. VS Code is slowly eating the classic Visual Studio userbase IMO.
- bzbz 7y ago
  Not just visual studio. There are definitely _tons_ of users who moved from Atom, Sublime, Brackets, or even Emacs/Vim to VS Code. I know all of the above. Don’t know any VS users other than former professor, and he definitely hasn’t switched to VS Code.