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doesn't look like they have any capacity for even fighting it. where are the planes loaded with water? firetrucks with ladders?
by pastor_elm 8y ago
doesn't look like they have any capacity for even fighting it. where are the planes loaded with water? firetrucks with ladders?
- tomswartz07 8y agoWater is heavy. If you drop water on a structure like this, you end up having a collapsed building that is also on fire.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- jimmaswell 8y agoThen why doesn't it collapse when it rains? Edit: Note the absolute phrasing of the parent comment and that the spray force in a strong downpour isn't much less than what's done with firefighting planes in situations that call for that level of pressure.
- _emacsomancer_ 8y agoIt's not usually on fire.
- r00fus 8y agoRain also doesn't put out major fires by itself.
- purerandomness 8y agoBecause most times when it rains, it's also not on fire.
- pfortuny 8y agoBecause. It. Is. Rain.
- noja 8y agoThe rate is different. Lots of water at once versus less spread over a long time.
- CydeWeys 8y agoRain doesn't fall all at once like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZkV64GJihA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZkV64GJihA
- jimmaswell 8y agoThat doesn't look like any single point gets that much force on it. Wouldn't be surprised if you could safely stand under it.
- keytarsolo 8y agoGive it a shot and report back to us.
- jimmaswell 8y agohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87hfWatbVPY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87hfWatbVPY
- holtalanm 8y agoI sincerely hope that was a joke.
- jimmaswell 8y agohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87hfWatbVPY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87hfWatbVPY
- tomswartz07 8y agoWater has a mass of ~8.3 lbs per gallon. A DC-10 Air Tanker carries 12,000 US gallons https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DC-10_Air_Tanker https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DC-10_Air_Tanker All said, that's 45.4 metric tons. Go ahead, stand under one and let us know how it goes.
- jimmaswell 8y ago
- stcredzero 8y agoThe rain falls over an extended period of time, not all at once as one glob. Only several drops are hitting you at any given instant in the rain, so you are only subjected to minuscule amounts of force at any given instant. The difference would be like standing in the shower for 40 minutes, versus being hit my an entire tub full of water going at the same speed all at once. I remember during the Khan Academy controversy a few years back, an educator commented on reddit about the difficulty in teaching some kids about rates. Some kids just don't get rates. They think of speed as something like "a feeling of intensity." They just don't have an abstract, generalized understanding of "N things per unit time." Think about that for a moment. Think about all of the potential for miscommunication.
- jimmaswell 8y agoYes, but the water sprayed from those tankers isn't much more intense than a severe downpour plus wind. The branches aren't snapped off the trees they're sprayed on here and people are standing right inside it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87hfWatbVPY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87hfWatbVPY I'm comparing strong rain to water plane spray. Maybe the output of some would be too severe, but clearly some are suitable.
- stcredzero 8y agoI'm comparing strong rain to water plane spray. Maybe the output of some would be too severe, but clearly some are suitable. Got it. I learned something new today.
- mikejb 8y agoBecause it doesn't rain tons of water in less than a second.
- jon-wood 8y agoGenerally when it rains you don’t go from nothing to several tons of water all hitting at once.
- Thaxll 8y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_Fire_Brigade https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_Fire_Brigade "it is the largest fire service in Europe and the third largest urban fire service in the world, after the Tokyo Fire Department and New York City Fire Department. Its motto is "Save or Perish" (French "Sauver ou périr")." I'm sure they have enough capacity. Also you don't just drop water from planes above cities... this makes no sense.
- pastor_elm 8y agoFire has been going for an hour and I don't see a single stream of water hitting it in any of the live streams.
- switch007 8y agoHow's your armchair? Nice and comfy?
- JshWright 8y agoHow much experience do you have in firefighting?
- splike 8y agoI find comments like this one really strange. What do you think is more likely? That there is not a single stream of water hitting it, or there are plenty of fire fighters at the scene you just happen not to have seen any pictures of them?
- ls612 8y agoThere were thousands of firefighters on scene at the World Trade Center, yet not a drop of water was ultimately poured on the fires. This may be well beyond their capability to stop.
- maxxxxx 8y agoIf the WTC fire hadn't been a government conspiracy it could easily have been stopped if they just had asked a few internet forums or Twitter users, right?
- nsxwolf 8y agoI've been watching different feeds and looking at photos and haven't seen any evidence of firefighting of any sort. What are they doing? Just letting it burn?
- simion314 8y agoMaybe we should wait to find out, there may be fireman inside making sure there are no people , evaluating the situation, I assume you need a strategy and not just spray water where you see flames.
- Raphmedia 8y agoThey might be more focused in evacuating the place and making sure none of the surrounding building catch fire. Paris is a huge firetrap, you really don't want it to jump. At least it is quite isolated from the rest of the city. Update: In the news they said that firefighters are entering the building to save as much art as possible before spraying water.
- CydeWeys 8y agoIt's not like planes loaded with water are standing by at the municipal fire brigade ready to go at a moment's notice. They would take hours to deploy. You typically see them used in wilderness firefighting, where fires rage for many days if not many weeks.
- JshWright 8y agoIt's also a terrible idea in urban firefighting...
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- JshWright 8y agoWhat would you expect planes to do...? This is a _really_ hard fire to fight. Their first priority is going to be ensuring everyone is safe, and likely setting up interior and exterior positions where they intend to stop the fire from spreading (the areas that are already involved are a total loss, let them go and focus on saving what can be saved).
- johannes1234321 8y agoThey key point is "fire control" You don't want to randomly throw water on a fire, which likely won't impact the fire in itself, but destroy the things not touched by the fire. For getting a fire down you either have to prevent it from access to oxygen or prevent spreading. A big fire like that can't be covered completely to be cut of from oxygen. With fire control you can however try to cool down the areas close to inflammation to prevent further spreading. Save what can be saved, like the lower walls.
- maxxxxx 8y agoTrump gave the same advice. After being involved in projects where we had to put out some fires it annoys the hell out of me when people who never have thought about the problem give some "advice" or say "why don't you just". Even rejecting it costs energy. Sometimes it's better to just shut up when you know nothing.
- wreath 8y ago> After being involved in projects where we had to put out some fires And what's the reason for not using water (or other) to put out the fire? I'm genuinely curious
- maxxxxx 8y agoI don't know. Ask an expert or do some research yourself.
- s_y_n_t_a_x 8y agoI don't think these firefighters are checking twitter and getting distracted by Trump's tweets or posts on HackerNews. People are just commenting on what they see. edit: I'm so sorry HN, apparently I offended people.
- maxxxxx 8y agoI bet there are other smartasses in high position in France who also give "advice" or are asking questions and they may be more difficult to ignore. Some managers have the courage to tell these people to f... off but a lot of them don't have the spine to do so so it still may be a problem for the firefighters. I have gone through this process last summer in my company and it's really frustrating when people spend energy on questioning everything you do instead of helping.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- SirensOfTitan 8y agoA presumably naive observer remarks from far away: why aren’t the experts on scene doing what I think they should do from my couch? The correct question here is: what don’t I know about firefighting that would explain the actions of the firefighters here?