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Depends on who you are. I am absolutely against this kind of surveillance. HOWEVER, as a US citizen I trust the US more with my data (or Germany or, etc.) then

Depends on who you are. I am absolutely against this kind of surveillance. HOWEVER, as a US citizen I trust the US more with my data (or Germany or, etc.) then China.

thwg 8y ago
China has a limited overseas power projection. China does not have the power to get you. But the US can pretty much get anybody. Congrats on being a US citizen.
- penagwin 8y ago
  > Congrats on being a US citizen. I apologize, I didn't mean to come off as snarky. What I mean is that it's my own country. If I was from say Sweden, I'd likely trust the Swedish government more as a Swedish Citizen.
  - thwg 8y ago
    No worries. It's true being a US citizen carries certain guarantee of basic rights that a citizenship of any other country does not. You wouldn't believe. Sweden is really a high-trust society. You can look up any person in the country online, etc, etc.
- jhayward 8y ago
  > China has a limited overseas power projection For a limited definition of 'power projection'. I am of the opinion that we are in the midst of a paradigm shift from overt physical power to weaponized and atomized informational power. That is to say, the use of information technology and very fine-grained details about individuals to achieve ends that suit those projecting power.
- ajxs 8y ago
  Is this a joke, ignorance or just being plain disingenuous? The issue of Chinese money disrupting regulatory bodies and academia in Australia and New Zealand is quite severe. China has fantastic power projection with far less restraint than the US. The power projection of the US armed forces is overt in active conflict zones in the third world, but China's power projection via economic means in the first world is clearly apparent, and I think the age where this does not impact individuals directly is rapidly drawing to a close.
  - thwg 8y ago
    I hate the Chinese regime more than you do. The problem here is by exaggerating Chinese power, right-wing rhetoric in the West is singing a war song against China, which usually carries a racist undertone. And the dictator in China would stupidly believe China is indeed powerful. That's how the trade war between Xi and Trump started.
  - thwg 8y ago
    One solution, beside bashing China, is to vote for a liberal agenda that would give more funding to universities. Guggenheim and other art institutions took money from the Sacklers, who started the opioid crisis. Because they need money. And universities need money. They have to get money one way or another.
- thwg 8y ago
  No. I'm not here to argue with anybody. I don't intend to change anyone's standing point. I realized long ago that online argument is more about sending pheromones so that the like-minded will come to you.
envy2 8y ago
I feel exactly the opposite. As a US citizen living in the US, even if the Chinese were to have every bit of my private data, they wouldn't really pose any threat to me as I'm not in their jurisdiction. The US, on the other hand, has a very real ability to use my data against me. With very few exceptions (e.g. you are being explicitly targeted by a hostile nation-state for high-profile activities), surveillance by foreign governments will always pose less risk than surveillance by your own government.
- creato 8y ago
  Do you think the NSA or China is more likely to blackmail you into giving up trade secrets of your employer?
- Aqua 8y ago
  That's a shortsighted view. If China is ever going to war with the US they sure as hell are going to use every bit of your data against your and other US citizens.
  - dna_polymerase 8y ago
    In that scenario I think we would face problems larger than our internet usage patterns.
- penagwin 8y ago
  I agree with that, the US poses a much greater realistic threat with my data. However I'm also more confident in our government system to have at least some form of recourse. However, I'll counter with the idea that while I as an individual am at minimal risk from direct legal action from China, the greater collection of data as a whole on say American's could be used maliciously. One example would be "Cambridge Analytica style" targeting of advertising, similar to the previous US election. What I mean to say is that this data may pose a strategic advantage for China in ways other then targeting individuals. Yes the US can do this to me as well, but again I'm more confident in our system of checks/balances to at least minimize the damage. Again, I do oppose all State surveillance, I just mean to voice my opinion the "lesser of the two evils"

Depends on who you are. I am absolutely against this kind of surveillance. HOWEVER, as a US citizen I trust the US more with my data (or Germany or, etc.) then China.

thwg 8y ago

China has a limited overseas power projection. China does not have the power to get you. But the US can pretty much get anybody. Congrats on being a US citizen.

penagwin 8y ago
> Congrats on being a US citizen. I apologize, I didn't mean to come off as snarky. What I mean is that it's my own country. If I was from say Sweden, I'd likely trust the Swedish government more as a Swedish Citizen.
- thwg 8y ago
  No worries. It's true being a US citizen carries certain guarantee of basic rights that a citizenship of any other country does not. You wouldn't believe. Sweden is really a high-trust society. You can look up any person in the country online, etc, etc.
jhayward 8y ago
> China has a limited overseas power projection For a limited definition of 'power projection'. I am of the opinion that we are in the midst of a paradigm shift from overt physical power to weaponized and atomized informational power. That is to say, the use of information technology and very fine-grained details about individuals to achieve ends that suit those projecting power.
ajxs 8y ago
Is this a joke, ignorance or just being plain disingenuous? The issue of Chinese money disrupting regulatory bodies and academia in Australia and New Zealand is quite severe. China has fantastic power projection with far less restraint than the US. The power projection of the US armed forces is overt in active conflict zones in the third world, but China's power projection via economic means in the first world is clearly apparent, and I think the age where this does not impact individuals directly is rapidly drawing to a close.
- thwg 8y ago
  I hate the Chinese regime more than you do. The problem here is by exaggerating Chinese power, right-wing rhetoric in the West is singing a war song against China, which usually carries a racist undertone. And the dictator in China would stupidly believe China is indeed powerful. That's how the trade war between Xi and Trump started.
- thwg 8y ago
  One solution, beside bashing China, is to vote for a liberal agenda that would give more funding to universities. Guggenheim and other art institutions took money from the Sacklers, who started the opioid crisis. Because they need money. And universities need money. They have to get money one way or another.
thwg 8y ago
No. I'm not here to argue with anybody. I don't intend to change anyone's standing point. I realized long ago that online argument is more about sending pheromones so that the like-minded will come to you.

envy2 8y ago

I feel exactly the opposite. As a US citizen living in the US, even if the Chinese were to have every bit of my private data, they wouldn't really pose any threat to me as I'm not in their jurisdiction. The US, on the other hand, has a very real ability to use my data against me. With very few exceptions (e.g. you are being explicitly targeted by a hostile nation-state for high-profile activities), surveillance by foreign governments will always pose less risk than surveillance by your own government.

creato 8y ago
Do you think the NSA or China is more likely to blackmail you into giving up trade secrets of your employer?
Aqua 8y ago
That's a shortsighted view. If China is ever going to war with the US they sure as hell are going to use every bit of your data against your and other US citizens.
- dna_polymerase 8y ago
  In that scenario I think we would face problems larger than our internet usage patterns.
penagwin 8y ago
I agree with that, the US poses a much greater realistic threat with my data. However I'm also more confident in our government system to have at least some form of recourse. However, I'll counter with the idea that while I as an individual am at minimal risk from direct legal action from China, the greater collection of data as a whole on say American's could be used maliciously. One example would be "Cambridge Analytica style" targeting of advertising, similar to the previous US election. What I mean to say is that this data may pose a strategic advantage for China in ways other then targeting individuals. Yes the US can do this to me as well, but again I'm more confident in our system of checks/balances to at least minimize the damage. Again, I do oppose all State surveillance, I just mean to voice my opinion the "lesser of the two evils"