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> most people are fine with casual touching That's a nice assumption. Are you sure about that? Have you asked most people? You might find that there are a lot

> most people are fine with casual touching That's a nice assumption. Are you sure about that? Have you asked most people? You might find that there are a lot of people who don't actually like it, but who find the consequences of making a fuss about it even worse.

Veen 8y ago
You’re speculating that most people may dislike being touched, but be unable or unwilling to express their dislike? It’s certainly possible, but they would be indistinguishable from people who are fine with being touched, so there’s not much that can be done in that circumstance.
- lmorchard 8y ago
  What can be done in the circumstance is this: keep your hands to yourself unless you know for sure. It's not difficult.
  - Veen 8y ago
    Difficulty has nothing to do with it. Your approach assumes that touching is somehow unusual and invasive, is not part of normal human interaction, and should always require upfront consent. I see no reason to assume that a pat on the arm or a light hug should be categorized in that way. If you don’t like being touched, then fine, that’s up to you. But you don’t get to dictate social norms for everyone else.
    - lmorchard 8y ago
      If you don't know a person, you don't know whether or not they find touch invasive. Don't touch them. You don't get to dictate boundaries for everyone else.
      - Veen 8y ago
        You appear to be making some unjustified assumptions. Namely that I’m defending my habit of touching strangers. In fact, I don’t touch people in social situations because I have a tendency to shyness. I do, however, find hugs and casual physical contact from other people pleasing and comforting. It’s a perfectly normal form of interaction. It would lessen the enjoyment I take in spontaneous social interactions, including physical contact, if it were codified and tabooed in the way you seem to prefer. Thankfully, the people I have asked about this in person seem to agree with me.
        lmorchard 7y ago
        You wrote "But you don’t get to dictate social norms for everyone else." My response of "you don't get to dictate boundaries" refers to that. No assumption there, other than what you've been asserting about social norms as somehow justifying violating boundaries. Doesn't matter that you have some anecdotal experience with the people you've asked. I've asked people about this in person and they seem to agree with me, so it's a wash. And I'm sorry your enjoyment might be lessened, but maybe that's just a price you have to pay in a world where other people and their respective enjoyments & preferences exist. Lots of people find hugs & contact both pleasing and comforting. Maybe there's even a general biological need for it. That doesn't generalize to suggest that unsolicited random hugs & contact with you in particular is necessary or welcome.

Veen 8y ago

You’re speculating that most people may dislike being touched, but be unable or unwilling to express their dislike? It’s certainly possible, but they would be indistinguishable from people who are fine with being touched, so there’s not much that can be done in that circumstance.

lmorchard 8y ago
What can be done in the circumstance is this: keep your hands to yourself unless you know for sure. It's not difficult.
- Veen 8y ago
  Difficulty has nothing to do with it. Your approach assumes that touching is somehow unusual and invasive, is not part of normal human interaction, and should always require upfront consent. I see no reason to assume that a pat on the arm or a light hug should be categorized in that way. If you don’t like being touched, then fine, that’s up to you. But you don’t get to dictate social norms for everyone else.
  - lmorchard 8y ago
    If you don't know a person, you don't know whether or not they find touch invasive. Don't touch them. You don't get to dictate boundaries for everyone else.
    - Veen 8y ago
      You appear to be making some unjustified assumptions. Namely that I’m defending my habit of touching strangers. In fact, I don’t touch people in social situations because I have a tendency to shyness. I do, however, find hugs and casual physical contact from other people pleasing and comforting. It’s a perfectly normal form of interaction. It would lessen the enjoyment I take in spontaneous social interactions, including physical contact, if it were codified and tabooed in the way you seem to prefer. Thankfully, the people I have asked about this in person seem to agree with me.
      - lmorchard 7y ago
        You wrote "But you don’t get to dictate social norms for everyone else." My response of "you don't get to dictate boundaries" refers to that. No assumption there, other than what you've been asserting about social norms as somehow justifying violating boundaries. Doesn't matter that you have some anecdotal experience with the people you've asked. I've asked people about this in person and they seem to agree with me, so it's a wash. And I'm sorry your enjoyment might be lessened, but maybe that's just a price you have to pay in a world where other people and their respective enjoyments & preferences exist. Lots of people find hugs & contact both pleasing and comforting. Maybe there's even a general biological need for it. That doesn't generalize to suggest that unsolicited random hugs & contact with you in particular is necessary or welcome.