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> the most productive devs really don't care if you shoulder-surf Are you sure this isn't because you've just forced out productive devs who aren't insane and

by flaque 8y ago

> the most productive devs really don't care if you shoulder-surf Are you sure this isn't because you've just forced out productive devs who aren't insane and tolerate this? You know... Like this: > those guys don't last long in an environment where everyones work is equally open for shoulder-surfing

mmjaa 8y ago
The guys who worked this way, stayed in the company and were very successful for years. Those who complained about it and left weren't really doing a great job in the first place. And, there really is nothing wrong with this policy of shoulder-surfing - unless you have things you need to hide about the way you work. Ask yourself: what's so scary about sharing your work this way with your colleagues in a professional environment? There aren't any productive answers to this question .. only emotional ones.
- dec0dedab0de 8y ago
  ::And, there really is nothing wrong with this policy of shoulder-surfing - unless you have things you need to hide about the way you work:: Because that can introduce anxiety and second guessing in even the most self assured person. Which is good from time to time, but not when you're trying to figure something out.
  - mmjaa 8y ago
    But then again .. maybe truly competent developers don't get such anxiety in the first place, and if they do need to 'figure something out' in an open, shoulder-surfing environment, can reliably depend on their colleagues to assist rather than "judge them for the secret difficulties they are having"? Unless you've experienced such an open environment, I wouldn't imagine you'd understand the advantages of not working in a state of secrecy. After all, the modern tech work place is an aggressive and hostile, often very competitive environment, right? Well this open-screen policy puts a stop to that hostility and competitiveness at a group policy level, and as a result: folks are less competitive and more cooperative. This manifests in a much better group dynamic, and higher levels of productivity occur. Try it! Or, if you find yourself resisting the idea, take some time to reflect what, exactly, this represents that you are afraid of ..
    - tluyben2 8y ago
      I for one am ‘not afraid’ of anything, I just find open offices incredibly unproductive and this sounds like an extreme form of it.
    - projektir 8y ago
      > maybe truly competent developers don't get such anxiety in the first place That's a big maybe to base these things on, and most available data seems to indicate that ability and confidence don't really correlate all that well, and even incredibly successful people struggle with mental health issues. We don't live in some kind of a fair world where competent people are rewarded with happiness and confidence, and incompetent ones are made anxious. A casual perusal of history makes this instantly obvious. > if you find yourself resisting the idea, take some time to reflect what, exactly, this represents that you are afraid of Seems like you have already made up your mind and are just seeing what you want to see. The statements you make here are not falsifiable and seem to be is-ought and wish fulfillment. They don't seem to be based on anything actually real.
      - mmjaa 8y ago
        I'm telling you my experience - an open environment that encourages shoulder-surfing and interaction with ones workspace environment has, in my experience, been more productive and a happier place to work than one where everyone hides their screens and don't interact 'because it gives them anxiety'. I, for sure, would not want to work in such a milquetoast environment.
        projektir 8y ago
        Why is your experience, which you are clearly already primed to perceive in the matter that fits your preconceived conclusions, worth anything?
    - confidantlake 8y ago
      What? Competent can't have mental health issues such as anxiety?
- mesozoic 8y ago
  Maybe they have a health issue that shoulder surfing triggers? Maybe they weren't very good because you were shoulder surfing constantly. Maybe they are human and have the basic evolved human instinctual drive to not have a stranger/semi stranger constantly behind their back doing who knows what, plotting their downfall likely.

by flaque 8y ago

mmjaa 8y ago

The guys who worked this way, stayed in the company and were very successful for years. Those who complained about it and left weren't really doing a great job in the first place. And, there really is nothing wrong with this policy of shoulder-surfing - unless you have things you need to hide about the way you work. Ask yourself: what's so scary about sharing your work this way with your colleagues in a professional environment? There aren't any productive answers to this question .. only emotional ones.

dec0dedab0de 8y ago
::And, there really is nothing wrong with this policy of shoulder-surfing - unless you have things you need to hide about the way you work:: Because that can introduce anxiety and second guessing in even the most self assured person. Which is good from time to time, but not when you're trying to figure something out.
- mmjaa 8y ago
  But then again .. maybe truly competent developers don't get such anxiety in the first place, and if they do need to 'figure something out' in an open, shoulder-surfing environment, can reliably depend on their colleagues to assist rather than "judge them for the secret difficulties they are having"? Unless you've experienced such an open environment, I wouldn't imagine you'd understand the advantages of not working in a state of secrecy. After all, the modern tech work place is an aggressive and hostile, often very competitive environment, right? Well this open-screen policy puts a stop to that hostility and competitiveness at a group policy level, and as a result: folks are less competitive and more cooperative. This manifests in a much better group dynamic, and higher levels of productivity occur. Try it! Or, if you find yourself resisting the idea, take some time to reflect what, exactly, this represents that you are afraid of ..
  - tluyben2 8y ago
    I for one am ‘not afraid’ of anything, I just find open offices incredibly unproductive and this sounds like an extreme form of it.
  - projektir 8y ago
    > maybe truly competent developers don't get such anxiety in the first place That's a big maybe to base these things on, and most available data seems to indicate that ability and confidence don't really correlate all that well, and even incredibly successful people struggle with mental health issues. We don't live in some kind of a fair world where competent people are rewarded with happiness and confidence, and incompetent ones are made anxious. A casual perusal of history makes this instantly obvious. > if you find yourself resisting the idea, take some time to reflect what, exactly, this represents that you are afraid of Seems like you have already made up your mind and are just seeing what you want to see. The statements you make here are not falsifiable and seem to be is-ought and wish fulfillment. They don't seem to be based on anything actually real.
    - mmjaa 8y ago
      I'm telling you my experience - an open environment that encourages shoulder-surfing and interaction with ones workspace environment has, in my experience, been more productive and a happier place to work than one where everyone hides their screens and don't interact 'because it gives them anxiety'. I, for sure, would not want to work in such a milquetoast environment.
      - projektir 8y ago
        Why is your experience, which you are clearly already primed to perceive in the matter that fits your preconceived conclusions, worth anything?
  - confidantlake 8y ago
    What? Competent can't have mental health issues such as anxiety?
mesozoic 8y ago
Maybe they have a health issue that shoulder surfing triggers? Maybe they weren't very good because you were shoulder surfing constantly. Maybe they are human and have the basic evolved human instinctual drive to not have a stranger/semi stranger constantly behind their back doing who knows what, plotting their downfall likely.