7 ms·

Cracking the Code: A Toddler, an iPad, and a Tweet

93 points by tysone 8y ago

ceocoder 8y ago
This article made me really happy. Our 3 year old is bound by the same rule - iPad is allowed when flying somewhere but not at home. Fortunately she has made peace with it... mostly. Every night we play Laurie Berkner toothbrushing song for her so she’ll spend full 2 minutes brushing her teeth. iPad is locked right after; every now and then she’ll try to grab it and enter some digits, and I think she is getting good at it. She knows first two digits already. At some point I’ll be forced to upgrade to touchID/faceId iPad for her as well.
- kgwxd 8y ago
  "At some point I’ll be forced to upgrade to touchID/faceId iPad for her as well." She'll figure that out too. "Hey, look at this picture I drew! Ignore that little hole at the top of the page."
  - benj111 8y ago
    Yes, children are like the raptors in Jurassic Park, testing the defenses, eventually learning to open (high up) cupboard doors. And when the one in front of you is being quiet and well behaved, watch out for the other one.....
  - ceocoder 8y ago
    That would be the perfect time for me to say “clever girl” - I mean she does run around the house like a little velociraptor anyway :)
  - nkrisc 8y ago
    If my kid pulled that off I'd be beaming with pride.
- ExBritNStuff 8y ago
  We're the same with our two kids, although not specifically the flying allowance because we don't fly with enough frequency for that to be a thing. Tablet usage is an earned treat, and if I calculated their usage, it would probably average to 90 minutes a week. That being said, I do worry I'm doing them a disservice. I make a very good living, relatively, in the IT field, and I ascribe that 100% to the fact that my parents bought a micro computer in 1982 and allowed me full access to it whenever I wasn't specifically doing anything else. I don't think I would be where I am if they had put some restrictions on my use of the computer. Admittedly I spent the majority of my time playing with BASIC rather than cutting fruit with my finger, so the use cases are totally different. However, by restricting their access I am limiting their ability to do anything with a tablet, including maybe discovering some programming application, or something that might light their imagination as mine was back in the 80's.
  - ceocoder 8y ago
    I think I know how you feel. I owe my chosen profession to the fact that I had early access to a computer and GWBASIC, however letting her play Daniel Tiger night/day game doesn’t sound like any sort of developmental aid. I’ve bought a few ad free games for her that cover math, English, logic etc; and I try to play those with her, however I also want her to be a kid as well and don’t want to take the fun out of that part. It is not an easy balance.
  - hycaria 8y ago
    Then why not get them a computer instead of a dumbed down ipad ?! Tablets are not the way to programming, you don't encounter enough problems for it to spark necessity.
- Waterluvian 8y ago
  I have a problem where I feel judged as a parent when others talk about their strict rules. It's not you, it's me. But it inclines me to share my story. Because I was so strictly regulated away from the computer as a kid, I decided to just relax and enjoy life on my own terms and not be so strict with my kids. So my 2 year old has unlimited iPad time. So far the observations are: - on days he uses it, it's between 1-2 hours total. - he knows his alphabet and will sing the song while typing in each letter. So he kind of knows qwerty. - he has complete access and basically goes into Netflix kids and YouTube. Ive never seen him find or watch anything inappropriate. This surprises me the most. - some days it can be like crack. Grab it from his hands and he goes nuclear - he gets bored and hands it back to you after 1-2 hours. - he ignores it for days. - he prefers going to the park or back yard over iPad time. - I think he loves having control. He picks what the tablet does. He picks what video is on. A lot of his day is decided by what mom and dad need to do. - some days we need to hide it because he's particularly fixated and getting him to bed time becomes difficult. - he has an interesting obsession with a few videos that count in many languages. He can comfortably count to 20 in English, French, and Spanish. Mom, dad, and a Spanish speaking grandmother supported this and I think the iPad time helped reinforce the learning on his terms at his place Overall I think it's a big win. But I expect this to change as he gets older. I expect we will have to start regulating it when he becomes capable of doing more complex activities on it.
  - rayiner 8y ago
    My daughter got her own iPad mini at about age 2. We don’t restrict access except when she’s grounded. She’s six now and has one of the new iPad Airs with the Pencil, which she uses to draw. She’s very responsible with her iPad use, and would rather do cartwheels than use the iPad. (Although, we also made her keep trying sports until she found one she liked, and now she’s very active between gymnastics and swimming.) Screens aren’t some magical thing that will poison your kids. I didn’t have an iPad growing up. Instead, I was obsessive (and sedentary) with books. Pushing kids to be active is orthogonal to letting them use screens when appropriate.
  - ilyanep 8y ago
    > some days we need to hide it because he's particularly fixated and getting him to bed time becomes difficult. Do you have a device that supports night shift? I wonder if using that feature could work to your advantage in re bedtime. (I'm just a childless person speculating, but wouldn't that be grand?)
- caprese 8y ago
  > She knows first two digits already. At some point I’ll be forced to upgrade to touchID/faceId iPad for her as well. I mean, or change the digits...
  - baroffoos 8y ago
    Nah its an apple product. The solution to all problems is to buy the latest model.
- lainga 8y ago
  She's two digits away - you'd better teach her how to play tic-tac-toe against herself, quick.
- vardump 8y ago
  My first kid has had her own iPad and allowed to use it for as long as she can remember... In some ways, it was very helpful. She learned a lot of skills early. But in some other ways not so much. She doesn't care to play much with other kids for instance. So my second kid (currently a toddler) will only get a Raspberry Pi. And a controlled amount of total screen time. Not going to do same mistake again.
vlunkr 8y ago
I’ve seen this story circulating and the explanation is totally wrong. It won’t let you attempt that many times. The clock got set to the unix epoch somehow, and it’s waiting until sometime close to the present to allow unlocking. The math adds up. This happened to an old phone I had that sat around with a dead battery for a long time, and I found forums where plenty of other people have had the problem.
- nfriedly 8y ago
  They briefly cover that in the article: > ... this was a problem especially with early iPads (ours is ancient)—they can have trouble with time and date, which in turn can send the lockout time soaring.
- pronoiac 8y ago
  Ah, then, won't syncing it up to a computer reset the clock, and the lockout lessen?
  - wernercd 8y ago
    Can you sync if it's locked?
  - Thorrez 8y ago
    Yes, the article says that was the solution on how to unlock it.
    - saagarjha 8y ago
      They didn’t sync the iPad, they reset it through DFU.
- MagicPropmaker 8y ago
  The author agrees with you. It was attributed to a bug in the way some early iPads / iOS kept time. > I was impressed by how many people posted substantive help, explaining that this was a problem especially with early iPads (ours is ancient)—they can have trouble with time and date, which in turn can send the lockout time soaring.
tedunangst 8y ago
I like that the internet detectives have determined all iPads have retina screens.
js2 8y ago
I recently turned on a first gen iPad mini that had been off for maybe a year and its battery had run down. I unlocked it but got repeated prompts to sign into iCloud with an error when I attempted to do so. I finally thought to check the time and it was set to 2017. Apparently if its too far from the current date, automatic time setting does not work. I had to manually set it to the current date/time, wait a minute or two, then I could toggle on automatic time setting. It’s been a while but I seem to recall ntpd behaving the same way on Unix/Linux and having to manually use ntpdate if the system clock is too far off.
- hug 8y ago
  1000 seconds, I believe, is the max that ntpd will correct without manual intervention. It also usually corrects by slewing time, so that the time correction doesn’t upset timers so much. I believe it can take several weeks to correct for a large offset. That information is true for most linuxes, and may not have any direct bearing on iOS.
chevman 8y ago
Had a similar problem with an old iPod touch. I think once the system time gets screwed up iOS won’t connect to any website due to certificate security errors - ie iOS thinks its 1999 but all the website certs aren’t effective until 2019 for some reason.
- hug 8y ago
  All x509 certificates have a “NotBeforeDate” value. It does help with trust: if you know there was a specific date on which there was a cutoff of a vendor producing a certain type of weak certificate, for example, you can choose only to trust certificates from that provider after a certain NotBeforeDate. All browsers will fail a certificate as invalid if your date is prior to the NotBeforeDate.
michelledepeil 8y ago
...and the same thing continues in these comments: something totally mundane posted on the internet being dissected to within an inch of its life. The whole point of the article is that random stuff on the internet becomes world news, but that seems lost on the HN crowd, who focusses more on the iPad bug. Actually, maybe I'm not surprised that has become the focus here.
gambiting 8y ago
"In the end, why did anybody care? Was it just a pleasing respite from gruelling news? Like so much of our lives with technology, the episode could be read as a reason for either optimism or gloom. In an instant, people had raged and imagined conspiracies; most did not. Many helped. " I wonder sometimes how much time is wasted on stuff like this.
jschuur 8y ago
Here's the real question: Did the kid think he was being persistent and that eventually he'd be able to play his games again, or did he think guessing the password _was_ the game?
- nkrisc 8y ago
  My kid's 18 months and "action/result" is his favorite game. He does one thing, and something else happens. Do it again! And again... and again......
thunderbong 8y ago
The last paragraph of the article - In the end, why did anybody care? Was it just a pleasing respite from gruelling news? Like so much of our lives with technology, the episode could be read as a reason for either optimism or gloom. In an instant, people had raged and imagined conspiracies; most did not. Many helped. Above all, the scenario, in all its ridiculousness, seemed to satisfy the low-grade anxieties that have become our universal predicament, the feeling that we’re rarely more than a few clicks away from becoming captive to the tech we love. And, when it came time to share that angst, we did it online, of course. By the end of the week, the tweets were slowing down. The Internet had moved on. And the iPad was on a high shelf.
KiDD 8y ago
So dumb. She restored the device as recommended by Apple, whom she didn't bother contacting... or even googling an answer.

93 points by tysone 8y ago

This article made me really happy. Our 3 year old is bound by the same rule - iPad is allowed when flying somewhere but not at home. Fortunately she has made peace with it... mostly. Every night we play Laurie Berkner toothbrushing song for her so she’ll spend full 2 minutes brushing her teeth. iPad is locked right after; every now and then she’ll try to grab it and enter some digits, and I think she is getting good at it. She knows first two digits already. At some point I’ll be forced to upgrade to touchID/faceId iPad for her as well.

kgwxd 8y ago
"At some point I’ll be forced to upgrade to touchID/faceId iPad for her as well." She'll figure that out too. "Hey, look at this picture I drew! Ignore that little hole at the top of the page."
- benj111 8y ago
  Yes, children are like the raptors in Jurassic Park, testing the defenses, eventually learning to open (high up) cupboard doors. And when the one in front of you is being quiet and well behaved, watch out for the other one.....
- ceocoder 8y ago
  That would be the perfect time for me to say “clever girl” - I mean she does run around the house like a little velociraptor anyway :)
- nkrisc 8y ago
  If my kid pulled that off I'd be beaming with pride.
ExBritNStuff 8y ago
We're the same with our two kids, although not specifically the flying allowance because we don't fly with enough frequency for that to be a thing. Tablet usage is an earned treat, and if I calculated their usage, it would probably average to 90 minutes a week. That being said, I do worry I'm doing them a disservice. I make a very good living, relatively, in the IT field, and I ascribe that 100% to the fact that my parents bought a micro computer in 1982 and allowed me full access to it whenever I wasn't specifically doing anything else. I don't think I would be where I am if they had put some restrictions on my use of the computer. Admittedly I spent the majority of my time playing with BASIC rather than cutting fruit with my finger, so the use cases are totally different. However, by restricting their access I am limiting their ability to do anything with a tablet, including maybe discovering some programming application, or something that might light their imagination as mine was back in the 80's.
- ceocoder 8y ago
  I think I know how you feel. I owe my chosen profession to the fact that I had early access to a computer and GWBASIC, however letting her play Daniel Tiger night/day game doesn’t sound like any sort of developmental aid. I’ve bought a few ad free games for her that cover math, English, logic etc; and I try to play those with her, however I also want her to be a kid as well and don’t want to take the fun out of that part. It is not an easy balance.
- hycaria 8y ago
  Then why not get them a computer instead of a dumbed down ipad ?! Tablets are not the way to programming, you don't encounter enough problems for it to spark necessity.
Waterluvian 8y ago
I have a problem where I feel judged as a parent when others talk about their strict rules. It's not you, it's me. But it inclines me to share my story. Because I was so strictly regulated away from the computer as a kid, I decided to just relax and enjoy life on my own terms and not be so strict with my kids. So my 2 year old has unlimited iPad time. So far the observations are: - on days he uses it, it's between 1-2 hours total. - he knows his alphabet and will sing the song while typing in each letter. So he kind of knows qwerty. - he has complete access and basically goes into Netflix kids and YouTube. Ive never seen him find or watch anything inappropriate. This surprises me the most. - some days it can be like crack. Grab it from his hands and he goes nuclear - he gets bored and hands it back to you after 1-2 hours. - he ignores it for days. - he prefers going to the park or back yard over iPad time. - I think he loves having control. He picks what the tablet does. He picks what video is on. A lot of his day is decided by what mom and dad need to do. - some days we need to hide it because he's particularly fixated and getting him to bed time becomes difficult. - he has an interesting obsession with a few videos that count in many languages. He can comfortably count to 20 in English, French, and Spanish. Mom, dad, and a Spanish speaking grandmother supported this and I think the iPad time helped reinforce the learning on his terms at his place Overall I think it's a big win. But I expect this to change as he gets older. I expect we will have to start regulating it when he becomes capable of doing more complex activities on it.
- rayiner 8y ago
  My daughter got her own iPad mini at about age 2. We don’t restrict access except when she’s grounded. She’s six now and has one of the new iPad Airs with the Pencil, which she uses to draw. She’s very responsible with her iPad use, and would rather do cartwheels than use the iPad. (Although, we also made her keep trying sports until she found one she liked, and now she’s very active between gymnastics and swimming.) Screens aren’t some magical thing that will poison your kids. I didn’t have an iPad growing up. Instead, I was obsessive (and sedentary) with books. Pushing kids to be active is orthogonal to letting them use screens when appropriate.
- ilyanep 8y ago
  > some days we need to hide it because he's particularly fixated and getting him to bed time becomes difficult. Do you have a device that supports night shift? I wonder if using that feature could work to your advantage in re bedtime. (I'm just a childless person speculating, but wouldn't that be grand?)
caprese 8y ago
> She knows first two digits already. At some point I’ll be forced to upgrade to touchID/faceId iPad for her as well. I mean, or change the digits...
- baroffoos 8y ago
  Nah its an apple product. The solution to all problems is to buy the latest model.
lainga 8y ago
She's two digits away - you'd better teach her how to play tic-tac-toe against herself, quick.
vardump 8y ago
My first kid has had her own iPad and allowed to use it for as long as she can remember... In some ways, it was very helpful. She learned a lot of skills early. But in some other ways not so much. She doesn't care to play much with other kids for instance. So my second kid (currently a toddler) will only get a Raspberry Pi. And a controlled amount of total screen time. Not going to do same mistake again.

vlunkr 8y ago

I’ve seen this story circulating and the explanation is totally wrong. It won’t let you attempt that many times. The clock got set to the unix epoch somehow, and it’s waiting until sometime close to the present to allow unlocking. The math adds up. This happened to an old phone I had that sat around with a dead battery for a long time, and I found forums where plenty of other people have had the problem.

nfriedly 8y ago
They briefly cover that in the article: > ... this was a problem especially with early iPads (ours is ancient)—they can have trouble with time and date, which in turn can send the lockout time soaring.
pronoiac 8y ago
Ah, then, won't syncing it up to a computer reset the clock, and the lockout lessen?
- wernercd 8y ago
  Can you sync if it's locked?
- Thorrez 8y ago
  Yes, the article says that was the solution on how to unlock it.
  - saagarjha 8y ago
    They didn’t sync the iPad, they reset it through DFU.
MagicPropmaker 8y ago
The author agrees with you. It was attributed to a bug in the way some early iPads / iOS kept time. > I was impressed by how many people posted substantive help, explaining that this was a problem especially with early iPads (ours is ancient)—they can have trouble with time and date, which in turn can send the lockout time soaring.

tedunangst 8y ago

I like that the internet detectives have determined all iPads have retina screens.

js2 8y ago

I recently turned on a first gen iPad mini that had been off for maybe a year and its battery had run down. I unlocked it but got repeated prompts to sign into iCloud with an error when I attempted to do so. I finally thought to check the time and it was set to 2017. Apparently if its too far from the current date, automatic time setting does not work. I had to manually set it to the current date/time, wait a minute or two, then I could toggle on automatic time setting. It’s been a while but I seem to recall ntpd behaving the same way on Unix/Linux and having to manually use ntpdate if the system clock is too far off.

hug 8y ago
1000 seconds, I believe, is the max that ntpd will correct without manual intervention. It also usually corrects by slewing time, so that the time correction doesn’t upset timers so much. I believe it can take several weeks to correct for a large offset. That information is true for most linuxes, and may not have any direct bearing on iOS.

chevman 8y ago

Had a similar problem with an old iPod touch. I think once the system time gets screwed up iOS won’t connect to any website due to certificate security errors - ie iOS thinks its 1999 but all the website certs aren’t effective until 2019 for some reason.

hug 8y ago
All x509 certificates have a “NotBeforeDate” value. It does help with trust: if you know there was a specific date on which there was a cutoff of a vendor producing a certain type of weak certificate, for example, you can choose only to trust certificates from that provider after a certain NotBeforeDate. All browsers will fail a certificate as invalid if your date is prior to the NotBeforeDate.

michelledepeil 8y ago

...and the same thing continues in these comments: something totally mundane posted on the internet being dissected to within an inch of its life. The whole point of the article is that random stuff on the internet becomes world news, but that seems lost on the HN crowd, who focusses more on the iPad bug. Actually, maybe I'm not surprised that has become the focus here.

gambiting 8y ago

"In the end, why did anybody care? Was it just a pleasing respite from gruelling news? Like so much of our lives with technology, the episode could be read as a reason for either optimism or gloom. In an instant, people had raged and imagined conspiracies; most did not. Many helped. " I wonder sometimes how much time is wasted on stuff like this.

jschuur 8y ago

Here's the real question: Did the kid think he was being persistent and that eventually he'd be able to play his games again, or did he think guessing the password _was_ the game?

nkrisc 8y ago
My kid's 18 months and "action/result" is his favorite game. He does one thing, and something else happens. Do it again! And again... and again......

thunderbong 8y ago

The last paragraph of the article - In the end, why did anybody care? Was it just a pleasing respite from gruelling news? Like so much of our lives with technology, the episode could be read as a reason for either optimism or gloom. In an instant, people had raged and imagined conspiracies; most did not. Many helped. Above all, the scenario, in all its ridiculousness, seemed to satisfy the low-grade anxieties that have become our universal predicament, the feeling that we’re rarely more than a few clicks away from becoming captive to the tech we love. And, when it came time to share that angst, we did it online, of course. By the end of the week, the tweets were slowing down. The Internet had moved on. And the iPad was on a high shelf.

KiDD 8y ago

So dumb. She restored the device as recommended by Apple, whom she didn't bother contacting... or even googling an answer.