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I think you're describing the real politic situation between the US and China correctly, but as somebody who is in a country controlled by armed US soldiers I'm

I think you're describing the real politic situation between the US and China correctly, but as somebody who is in a country controlled by armed US soldiers I'm more concerned about being spied on by the US than China. If you don't identify with the corrupt government you live under the us-vs-them division seems fairly meaningless. It's not like the NSA is looking out for my best interests, or else they'd be patching vulnerabilities instead of exploiting them.

deogeo 8y ago
Do you believe the situation would be improved if China had greater influence, in the US and globally? Edit: To clarify, by 'the situation', I mean general quality of life/effective freedom, not necessarily limited to surveillance.
- luckylion 8y ago
  Personally, I believe so, yes. When you have two competing powers, neither can abuse their power as much. Ideally, it wouldn't be just two, but two are better than one. If the EU could emancipate itself from the US, that would be a very welcome addition, but I don't see that happening anytime soon because the EU is made up of many interests and has no single government (and I'd love to have less EU, but for other reasons) so it's not able to compete at the same level. When the soviets were still a credible threat, the West needed to give their lower classes a piece of the pie because of the sweet promises the soviets spoke of (it doesn't matter whether they ever fulfilled them). Now that that's gone, they don't, and my country hasn't seen net wage increases for workers for multiple decades despite huge increases in productivity. We have seen a drop on corporate taxes and more tax evasion for the ultra rich, though.
  - blotter_paper 8y ago
    I took GP to be asking a question with regards to surveillance specifically. I think this might be a realm where competition brings an arms-race with negative consequences for citizens. I think China having data gives the US more of a reason to have data, and vice versa. That being said, the NSA might start disclosing vulnerabilities quicker if China stepped up their exploit game.
    - luckylion 8y ago
      Possibly, but so far the NSA didn't show any restraint, so how big is the risk that they get more appetite? On the other hand, it might well be that "you spy on us? we'll buy from China then" makes them take it down a notch, and the same will apply to China. Choice limits the power the supplier has over the buyer. Of course, it could also lead to the two global powers having an agreement, splitting up the world and nothing really changes, but if there's a chance, there is hope.
- blotter_paper 8y ago
  Realistically, in general, no. In at least one specific hypothetical case relevant to this discussion, yes: if I were convinced that there was a cellphone provider that was forwarding my data to China but not the US, I'd pick them over the US provider. I don't think that's what's going with Huawei phones (the US still gets that data), and I don't think it's a reasonably likely scenario, but I would make that trade-off in lieu of better options.

deogeo 8y ago

Do you believe the situation would be improved if China had greater influence, in the US and globally? Edit: To clarify, by 'the situation', I mean general quality of life/effective freedom, not necessarily limited to surveillance.

luckylion 8y ago
Personally, I believe so, yes. When you have two competing powers, neither can abuse their power as much. Ideally, it wouldn't be just two, but two are better than one. If the EU could emancipate itself from the US, that would be a very welcome addition, but I don't see that happening anytime soon because the EU is made up of many interests and has no single government (and I'd love to have less EU, but for other reasons) so it's not able to compete at the same level. When the soviets were still a credible threat, the West needed to give their lower classes a piece of the pie because of the sweet promises the soviets spoke of (it doesn't matter whether they ever fulfilled them). Now that that's gone, they don't, and my country hasn't seen net wage increases for workers for multiple decades despite huge increases in productivity. We have seen a drop on corporate taxes and more tax evasion for the ultra rich, though.
- blotter_paper 8y ago
  I took GP to be asking a question with regards to surveillance specifically. I think this might be a realm where competition brings an arms-race with negative consequences for citizens. I think China having data gives the US more of a reason to have data, and vice versa. That being said, the NSA might start disclosing vulnerabilities quicker if China stepped up their exploit game.
  - luckylion 8y ago
    Possibly, but so far the NSA didn't show any restraint, so how big is the risk that they get more appetite? On the other hand, it might well be that "you spy on us? we'll buy from China then" makes them take it down a notch, and the same will apply to China. Choice limits the power the supplier has over the buyer. Of course, it could also lead to the two global powers having an agreement, splitting up the world and nothing really changes, but if there's a chance, there is hope.
blotter_paper 8y ago
Realistically, in general, no. In at least one specific hypothetical case relevant to this discussion, yes: if I were convinced that there was a cellphone provider that was forwarding my data to China but not the US, I'd pick them over the US provider. I don't think that's what's going with Huawei phones (the US still gets that data), and I don't think it's a reasonably likely scenario, but I would make that trade-off in lieu of better options.