4 ms·

Your comment blames the victim. Don't do this. Whether it's a professional networking event or a fun, crazy, not-so-professional party, no one should be treate

Your comment blames the victim. Don't do this. Whether it's a professional networking event or a fun, crazy, not-so-professional party, no one should be treated in this manner. No matter her (or his) behavior or the atmosphere. Period. Also, she mentioned "sitting on laps" because there was no room in the party, and people have a right to flirt without being, uh, sexually molested. Finally, the linked article cites this as one example. There are many others, like when the author organized a group outing to a pub, only to have one of the invited workshop attendees grab my ass while I was having a completely normal conversation. (EDIT) sp332 points out that GP is discussing the environment at these events, but we're operating in shades of gray here. The author talks about how the attitude towards women at these events is "institutionalized sexism." That is, people hired strippers etc. for years, and that attitude still exists at conferences/events. Noira could've been out-of-bounds by sitting in someone's lap, but we don't have any information on whether she knows the person, has a relationship with them, etc. Still, GP's comment implies that Noira's behavior fosters the "sexualized environment" the author is complaining about. My point is that there's a big leap from Noira's flirting to women being groped. (/edit)

sp332 16y ago
Hang on, GP is addressing a different issue, not the groping. The article complains that "sexualized environments" are bad, but Noirin sought out - and actively participated in - a sexualized environment and had no problem with it (the groping was a separate thing). Obviously there is a distinction to be made, but it's not clear what the distinction is...
- achompas 16y ago
  Upvote for catching this, and I'm editing my post to be clearer, but: there's a world of difference between harmless flirting and attending a conference where the company hires strippers.
  - robg 16y ago
    And the strippers aren't even at the party for sex.
- robg 16y ago
  A party isn't a "sexualized environment". An orgy is. Let's be perfectly clear that there's a huge difference between the two. People go to parties for all sorts of reasons. Look guys, women flirt to signal interest. You can never assume anything more than that is intended. It's not fair to them and you'll look foolish (or worse) if you go too fast.
  - yummyfajitas 16y ago
    In that case, the author of the article is also wrong. There are no public sex acts, so open source conferences are similarly not sexualized environments.
    - achompas 16y ago
      A party isn't a sexualized environment unless there's some overtly-sexual influence. Similarly, open-source conferences are completely tame until the organizers hire strippers. And strippers are as "sexualized" as it gets (well, except for orgies or prostitutes).
      - jules 16y ago
        Strippers are of course ridiculous to have at a conference. I can't even begin to imagine how anyone could think that it's a good idea. However, read the proposed policy: http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/index.php?title=Conference_anti-harassment_policy http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/index.php?title=Conference_ant... > We do not tolerate harassment of conference participants in any form. Sexual language and imagery is not appropriate for any conference venue, including talks. Conference participants violating these rules may be sanctioned or expelled from the conference [without a refund] at the discretion of the conference organizers. Sexual language is forbidden. I think we can agree that this too, is ridiculous.
        enneff 16y ago
        I agree it sounds ridiculous, but now I am having a hard time thinking of an appropriate example of sexual language at a tech conference. These rules set clearly defined boundaries that even the most tactless, socially inept people can understand and abide by.
rb2k_ 16y ago
I don't blame the victim, I just thought I would get away with NOT saying that I condone sexual assault because I personally think that this goes without saying... I just think that no matter how crowded a hotel room, you shouldn't sit on other peoples laps or flirt with people if you actually intend to keep the gathering anything close to professional. If you want to sexualize your environment, I'd suggest a short skirt, flirting and sitting on people's laps. Sadly, you can't have both.

sp332 16y ago

Hang on, GP is addressing a different issue, not the groping. The article complains that "sexualized environments" are bad, but Noirin sought out - and actively participated in - a sexualized environment and had no problem with it (the groping was a separate thing). Obviously there is a distinction to be made, but it's not clear what the distinction is...

achompas 16y ago
Upvote for catching this, and I'm editing my post to be clearer, but: there's a world of difference between harmless flirting and attending a conference where the company hires strippers.
- robg 16y ago
  And the strippers aren't even at the party for sex.
robg 16y ago
A party isn't a "sexualized environment". An orgy is. Let's be perfectly clear that there's a huge difference between the two. People go to parties for all sorts of reasons. Look guys, women flirt to signal interest. You can never assume anything more than that is intended. It's not fair to them and you'll look foolish (or worse) if you go too fast.
- yummyfajitas 16y ago
  In that case, the author of the article is also wrong. There are no public sex acts, so open source conferences are similarly not sexualized environments.
  - achompas 16y ago
    A party isn't a sexualized environment unless there's some overtly-sexual influence. Similarly, open-source conferences are completely tame until the organizers hire strippers. And strippers are as "sexualized" as it gets (well, except for orgies or prostitutes).
    - jules 16y ago
      Strippers are of course ridiculous to have at a conference. I can't even begin to imagine how anyone could think that it's a good idea. However, read the proposed policy: http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/index.php?title=Conference_anti-harassment_policy http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/index.php?title=Conference_ant... > We do not tolerate harassment of conference participants in any form. Sexual language and imagery is not appropriate for any conference venue, including talks. Conference participants violating these rules may be sanctioned or expelled from the conference [without a refund] at the discretion of the conference organizers. Sexual language is forbidden. I think we can agree that this too, is ridiculous.
      - enneff 16y ago
        I agree it sounds ridiculous, but now I am having a hard time thinking of an appropriate example of sexual language at a tech conference. These rules set clearly defined boundaries that even the most tactless, socially inept people can understand and abide by.

rb2k_ 16y ago

I don't blame the victim, I just thought I would get away with NOT saying that I condone sexual assault because I personally think that this goes without saying... I just think that no matter how crowded a hotel room, you shouldn't sit on other peoples laps or flirt with people if you actually intend to keep the gathering anything close to professional. If you want to sexualize your environment, I'd suggest a short skirt, flirting and sitting on people's laps. Sadly, you can't have both.