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Chomsky on the arrest of Julian Assange [video]

123 points by ak39 8y ago

HTTPS://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYdDp4mHDRY

mseidl 8y ago
I'm kind of torn on this, didn't he help Manning hack the military stuff?
- justatdotin 8y ago
  I think the story is he promised to try to help (which doesnt mean he did, or could: "no luck so far") https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/1153486/download https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/1153486/downl...
- nullc 8y ago
  My understanding is that Manning reported that if she could crack an NTLM password she could better conceal who obtained and leaked the documents. A party, apparently Assange, claimed to have rainbow tables and could try. Later Manning followed up and got a no-luck-so-far response. I have not heard any reports that Assange actually did so. So the facts are that Assange is accused of helping a leaker cover their tracks-- something that a journalist would ordinarily do, at least in so far as if it came to covering their traces against normal physical detection (e.g. refill the copy machine after copying a big stack of documents...). One could have an interesting debate on how equivalent cracking a service account to cover tracks would be to something like finding a department generic code to redirect copying billing attention ... but there doesn't even to be any evidence that he successfully provided that help.
  - mmjaa 8y ago
    Innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Not, in a court of public opinion. Keep this in mind, as we go down the bumpy road that is going to be Assange's trial...
  - jhfdbkofdcho 8y ago
    This is only vaguely what is known in the public record so far in order to bring charges and extradite. I expect there will be more that is made known over time. It’ll be a long, slow process.
andy_ppp 8y ago
The article has been entered incorrectly, can one of the mods fix it?
ChaosMarine 8y ago
If they go after Assange, the next few years will have leaks done anonymously. If they let him go, people will leak the materials in their own names. In either case, the leaks will not stop.
- Iv 8y ago
  You still need people to authenticate the leaks. Otherwise, propaganda's game will be to engineer fake leaks and spread them around. Journalism is essential to democracy. Protection of sources is crucial. Some intellectuals consider it should be protected like a fourth branch of government and be independently funded.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
- mmjaa 8y ago
  This isn't about Assange. This is about ensuring that the leaks continue. The leaks will continue, with or without Assange. The line in the sand has been drawn: the entrenched criminals in the military-industrial-pharmaceutical complex are long overdue for a reckoning, and it is coming - Assange or no Assange. The cat is out of the bag, and it is really, really pissed off. Treating Assange poorly is going to ensure that its claws come out. The US Gov't and its lackeys are not immune to the light of truth - and this light is well and truly headed their way...
- rolph 8y ago
  SplinterItIntoAThousandPiecesAndScatterItIntoTheWinds
lucb1e 8y ago
It's interesting to hear someone, especially an American, remark upon the USA's outreach (4:06). I bring it up sometimes, but I hardly ever hear anyone else bring it up (friends, family, colleagues, media, HN/reddit). It seems to be normal that the Dutch media report as much news about the USA as they do about Germany, France, Spain, and Italy combined. It's normal that they have military bases in a lot of other countries. It's normal that we all use closed source USA-made operating systems (Android, Windows, macOS, iOS). Heck, we hardly criticized the unprovoked invasion of Iraq and what did our government do? They helped. Some of the media and public took issue with (alleged?) torturing practices, but no government did anything and we (govts+public+media) still treat the USA as the example of western society. And more on topic, the UK is perfectly fine doing their bidding in the Assange case.
- rado 8y ago
  Not to mention being tied to closed source USA-made currency
  - stareatgoats 8y ago
    Yes, this is obviously central in explaining the stranglehold the US can exert i other jurisdictions. "Comply with our sanctions or be denied trade in dollars" is something no serious business, let alone bank, can disregard. That such submissiveness also spills over into journalism and politics is understandable but disgusting. No matter, it will not stand for long. Economic powerhouses like China and Europe will not accept it in the long term.
- stingraycharles 8y ago
  This becomes even more obvious when you directly compare certain issues such as elections. Dutch media dedicates so much more time to the US elections than it does to our neighbors (Germany, France or UK). I don’t know what the exact reason is, but it seems like we’re a lot more focused on what’s going on in the US.
- Findeton 8y ago
  While all you said is true, I'd recommend to think of a plausible alternative. If the USA stops behaving as an Empire, what would actually happen? My guess is that China would become the global empire, to a higher level than right now. Do you really want that? Will China be a better global empire? I mean, the USA at least has some form of democracy, whereas China is the largest dictatorship in the planet. Maybe the USA being a global empire is the least worst alternative. And by the way I'm European.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
epncs 8y ago
>It's interesting to hear someone, especially an American "Chomsky and his brother were raised Jewish, being taught Hebrew and regularly discussing the political theories of Zionism; the family was particularly influenced by the Left Zionist writings of Ahad Ha'am."
- perfmode 8y ago
  Why invoke no true Scotsman?
  - epncs 8y ago
    It's not "no true Scotsman". Jews are treacherous, so it's no surprise a Jew supports subverting the US from within.
- lucb1e 8y ago
  I see you took this from Chomsky's Wikipedia page. I still think of him as American, not only legally, but he was born and grew up in the USA and went to a normal USA university. You can't do that and not get a healthy dose of loyalty to the country you've always known as your home.
keiferski 8y ago
Until the link is fixed, here's a clickable version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYdDp4mHDRY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYdDp4mHDRY
stareatgoats 8y ago
I don't agree with Chomsky on all issues, but I feel sad that he now so old that his command of language is faltering. I can't think of anyone who is going to take his place as a crucially important voice against imperialist power misuse. "We have to silence this voice" is exactly what is happening.
grewil2 8y ago
Assange is accused of sexual assault in Sweden. Sexual assault victims have the right to trial and justice, no matter who the accused is. No one is above the law, not even a famous journalist.
- Okkef 8y ago
  That is not the reason he was arrested. The assault charges have been retracted.
  - grewil2 8y ago
    I mention this, as in his speech, Chomsky mentions Sweden in the same gang as UK and the US, without making the distinction why Sweden is interested in Assange - which made me quite disappointed in Chomsky. It is true that the preliminary rape investigation was dropped in 2017, but it may now be activated again. According to associate professor in international law Karl Jigland, this will happen if a prosecutor orders Assange arrested in absence. In accord with the regular process, Assange may then appeal against this accusation.
    - stareatgoats 8y ago
      The Swedish case i fraught with suspicious circumstances, and it is fairly certain that they don't have a case, should it come to trial. You may want to read this article, especially the paragraph that recounts how the Swedish prosecutors were told "Don't you dare get cold feet!!" by the British chief CPS lawyer after warning that they would have to drop the charges, and how that email exchange later was deleted, contrary to protocol: https://www.jonathan-cook.net/blog/2018-02-12/the-uks-hidden-role-in-assanges-detention/ https://www.jonathan-cook.net/blog/2018-02-12/the-uks-hidden...
- danieltillett 8y ago
  I think Assange on multiple occasions has said he is willing to face trial in Sweden - his issue has always been that he doesn't want to be shipped off to the USA to spend the rest of his life in a supermax in Colorado.
rubzah 8y ago
One can hope for a Labour win in the UK elections - Jeremy Corbyn has come out against extradiction: Jeremy Corbyn @jeremycorbyn - 19:34 utc - 11 Apr 2019 The extradition of Julian Assange to the US for exposing evidence of atrocities in Iraq and Afghanistan should be opposed by the British government. Looking forward to the corporate media campaign against Corbyn. The Trump one was getting boring anyway.
- danieltillett 8y ago
  Jeremy really doesn't want to win does he.
IgorPartola 8y ago
So I hear a lot of sentiment elsewhere on the web that Assange/WL at some point became just Russian propaganda assets. HN seems to see him as a sort of flawed hero. Can anyone here help me understand where these two almost opposite views are coming from and which one is right?
- danieltillett 8y ago
  There has been a high level smear campaign run against Assange for many years so you can't really trust anything you read. On top of this I think Julian has gone crazy - hard not to when you are locked up indefinitely and they really are out to get you. At this point almost anything could be true.
- burk96 8y ago
  Wikileaks has been criticized for primarily leaking information from NATO aligned governments with a noticeable lack of Russian leaks. On top of that, during the 2016 election he supposedly had access to both the DNC emails and a set of RNC emails. Yet only the DNC emails were published. I don't know if either view is completely correct, it really is a manner of optics. If it is true that Assange has held back information on the Russian government or the RNC, this flaw would make sense from a survival standpoint for him. And even if he was doing it purely out of a survival strategy, would it not make him some sort of Russian asset in a bit of an abstract way?
YeGoblynQueenne 8y ago
He's sure right about one thing: this is the first time I hear anything about Lula being put in prison. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luiz_In%C3%A1cio_Lula_da_Silva https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luiz_In%C3%A1cio_Lula_da_Silva
aoctavio 8y ago
Every pro communist and pro Russian is a hero, any pro American is a sinner. Very clear philosophy Mr Chomsky.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

123 points by ak39 8y ago

HTTPS://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYdDp4mHDRY

mseidl 8y ago

I'm kind of torn on this, didn't he help Manning hack the military stuff?

justatdotin 8y ago
I think the story is he promised to try to help (which doesnt mean he did, or could: "no luck so far") https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/1153486/download https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/1153486/downl...
nullc 8y ago
My understanding is that Manning reported that if she could crack an NTLM password she could better conceal who obtained and leaked the documents. A party, apparently Assange, claimed to have rainbow tables and could try. Later Manning followed up and got a no-luck-so-far response. I have not heard any reports that Assange actually did so. So the facts are that Assange is accused of helping a leaker cover their tracks-- something that a journalist would ordinarily do, at least in so far as if it came to covering their traces against normal physical detection (e.g. refill the copy machine after copying a big stack of documents...). One could have an interesting debate on how equivalent cracking a service account to cover tracks would be to something like finding a department generic code to redirect copying billing attention ... but there doesn't even to be any evidence that he successfully provided that help.
- mmjaa 8y ago
  Innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Not, in a court of public opinion. Keep this in mind, as we go down the bumpy road that is going to be Assange's trial...
- jhfdbkofdcho 8y ago
  This is only vaguely what is known in the public record so far in order to bring charges and extradite. I expect there will be more that is made known over time. It’ll be a long, slow process.

andy_ppp 8y ago

The article has been entered incorrectly, can one of the mods fix it?

ChaosMarine 8y ago

If they go after Assange, the next few years will have leaks done anonymously. If they let him go, people will leak the materials in their own names. In either case, the leaks will not stop.

Iv 8y ago
You still need people to authenticate the leaks. Otherwise, propaganda's game will be to engineer fake leaks and spread them around. Journalism is essential to democracy. Protection of sources is crucial. Some intellectuals consider it should be protected like a fourth branch of government and be independently funded.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
mmjaa 8y ago
This isn't about Assange. This is about ensuring that the leaks continue. The leaks will continue, with or without Assange. The line in the sand has been drawn: the entrenched criminals in the military-industrial-pharmaceutical complex are long overdue for a reckoning, and it is coming - Assange or no Assange. The cat is out of the bag, and it is really, really pissed off. Treating Assange poorly is going to ensure that its claws come out. The US Gov't and its lackeys are not immune to the light of truth - and this light is well and truly headed their way...
rolph 8y ago
SplinterItIntoAThousandPiecesAndScatterItIntoTheWinds

lucb1e 8y ago

It's interesting to hear someone, especially an American, remark upon the USA's outreach (4:06). I bring it up sometimes, but I hardly ever hear anyone else bring it up (friends, family, colleagues, media, HN/reddit). It seems to be normal that the Dutch media report as much news about the USA as they do about Germany, France, Spain, and Italy combined. It's normal that they have military bases in a lot of other countries. It's normal that we all use closed source USA-made operating systems (Android, Windows, macOS, iOS). Heck, we hardly criticized the unprovoked invasion of Iraq and what did our government do? They helped. Some of the media and public took issue with (alleged?) torturing practices, but no government did anything and we (govts+public+media) still treat the USA as the example of western society. And more on topic, the UK is perfectly fine doing their bidding in the Assange case.

rado 8y ago
Not to mention being tied to closed source USA-made currency
- stareatgoats 8y ago
  Yes, this is obviously central in explaining the stranglehold the US can exert i other jurisdictions. "Comply with our sanctions or be denied trade in dollars" is something no serious business, let alone bank, can disregard. That such submissiveness also spills over into journalism and politics is understandable but disgusting. No matter, it will not stand for long. Economic powerhouses like China and Europe will not accept it in the long term.
stingraycharles 8y ago
This becomes even more obvious when you directly compare certain issues such as elections. Dutch media dedicates so much more time to the US elections than it does to our neighbors (Germany, France or UK). I don’t know what the exact reason is, but it seems like we’re a lot more focused on what’s going on in the US.
Findeton 8y ago
While all you said is true, I'd recommend to think of a plausible alternative. If the USA stops behaving as an Empire, what would actually happen? My guess is that China would become the global empire, to a higher level than right now. Do you really want that? Will China be a better global empire? I mean, the USA at least has some form of democracy, whereas China is the largest dictatorship in the planet. Maybe the USA being a global empire is the least worst alternative. And by the way I'm European.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

epncs 8y ago

>It's interesting to hear someone, especially an American "Chomsky and his brother were raised Jewish, being taught Hebrew and regularly discussing the political theories of Zionism; the family was particularly influenced by the Left Zionist writings of Ahad Ha'am."

perfmode 8y ago
Why invoke no true Scotsman?
- epncs 8y ago
  It's not "no true Scotsman". Jews are treacherous, so it's no surprise a Jew supports subverting the US from within.
lucb1e 8y ago
I see you took this from Chomsky's Wikipedia page. I still think of him as American, not only legally, but he was born and grew up in the USA and went to a normal USA university. You can't do that and not get a healthy dose of loyalty to the country you've always known as your home.

keiferski 8y ago

Until the link is fixed, here's a clickable version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYdDp4mHDRY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYdDp4mHDRY

stareatgoats 8y ago

I don't agree with Chomsky on all issues, but I feel sad that he now so old that his command of language is faltering. I can't think of anyone who is going to take his place as a crucially important voice against imperialist power misuse. "We have to silence this voice" is exactly what is happening.

grewil2 8y ago

Assange is accused of sexual assault in Sweden. Sexual assault victims have the right to trial and justice, no matter who the accused is. No one is above the law, not even a famous journalist.

Okkef 8y ago
That is not the reason he was arrested. The assault charges have been retracted.
- grewil2 8y ago
  I mention this, as in his speech, Chomsky mentions Sweden in the same gang as UK and the US, without making the distinction why Sweden is interested in Assange - which made me quite disappointed in Chomsky. It is true that the preliminary rape investigation was dropped in 2017, but it may now be activated again. According to associate professor in international law Karl Jigland, this will happen if a prosecutor orders Assange arrested in absence. In accord with the regular process, Assange may then appeal against this accusation.
  - stareatgoats 8y ago
    The Swedish case i fraught with suspicious circumstances, and it is fairly certain that they don't have a case, should it come to trial. You may want to read this article, especially the paragraph that recounts how the Swedish prosecutors were told "Don't you dare get cold feet!!" by the British chief CPS lawyer after warning that they would have to drop the charges, and how that email exchange later was deleted, contrary to protocol: https://www.jonathan-cook.net/blog/2018-02-12/the-uks-hidden-role-in-assanges-detention/ https://www.jonathan-cook.net/blog/2018-02-12/the-uks-hidden...
danieltillett 8y ago
I think Assange on multiple occasions has said he is willing to face trial in Sweden - his issue has always been that he doesn't want to be shipped off to the USA to spend the rest of his life in a supermax in Colorado.

rubzah 8y ago

One can hope for a Labour win in the UK elections - Jeremy Corbyn has come out against extradiction: Jeremy Corbyn @jeremycorbyn - 19:34 utc - 11 Apr 2019 The extradition of Julian Assange to the US for exposing evidence of atrocities in Iraq and Afghanistan should be opposed by the British government. Looking forward to the corporate media campaign against Corbyn. The Trump one was getting boring anyway.

danieltillett 8y ago
Jeremy really doesn't want to win does he.

IgorPartola 8y ago

So I hear a lot of sentiment elsewhere on the web that Assange/WL at some point became just Russian propaganda assets. HN seems to see him as a sort of flawed hero. Can anyone here help me understand where these two almost opposite views are coming from and which one is right?

danieltillett 8y ago
There has been a high level smear campaign run against Assange for many years so you can't really trust anything you read. On top of this I think Julian has gone crazy - hard not to when you are locked up indefinitely and they really are out to get you. At this point almost anything could be true.
burk96 8y ago
Wikileaks has been criticized for primarily leaking information from NATO aligned governments with a noticeable lack of Russian leaks. On top of that, during the 2016 election he supposedly had access to both the DNC emails and a set of RNC emails. Yet only the DNC emails were published. I don't know if either view is completely correct, it really is a manner of optics. If it is true that Assange has held back information on the Russian government or the RNC, this flaw would make sense from a survival standpoint for him. And even if he was doing it purely out of a survival strategy, would it not make him some sort of Russian asset in a bit of an abstract way?

YeGoblynQueenne 8y ago

He's sure right about one thing: this is the first time I hear anything about Lula being put in prison. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luiz_In%C3%A1cio_Lula_da_Silva https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luiz_In%C3%A1cio_Lula_da_Silva

aoctavio 8y ago

Every pro communist and pro Russian is a hero, any pro American is a sinner. Very clear philosophy Mr Chomsky.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]