5 ms·

Are you kidding? We have people flooding into CS jobs from ALL other fields, and ALL other countries, because, "If I don't make it in XyZ I can always get a jo

Are you kidding? We have people flooding into CS jobs from ALL other fields, and ALL other countries, because, "If I don't make it in XyZ I can always get a job programming!", at Google I sat next to a math PhD, an EE, and a Music Major! What do you think happens when every one uses your major as their backup plan?

freyr 7y ago
Have a non-CS PhD and “made it” in my field, but joined FANG to make 2X as much money. I mean, why not? You should have an upper hand though with a CS degree. I had to learn everything on my own, and there are still areas that I don’t know and you should.
josteink 7y ago
Can confirm. EE major with computers and programming as a hobby since I was a kid. When my major didn’t work out, I managed to land a IT-job instead and I’ve been here since.
ForHackernews 7y ago
Software engineering is not a "CS job". Computer science is a research field that has very little to do with the workaday business of creating good reliable software. Developers would do well to realize that they're skilled labor, not academics or superstar artists, and start behaving accordingly.
- gm224 7y ago
  I regularly have to design complex systems and also do correctness proofs for isolated functions. But I see the error in my ways and humbly realize that I'm just "skilled labor". Really, if you compare the level of thinking of an average developer to an average academic, the academic often has nothing but his degree. The level of parroting and complete lack of critical thinking is widespread among academics.
  - analog31 7y ago
    Not strictly related to programming, but in general, most engineers don't use the stuff that they learned in college. If it's maybe 20% of the work, it will go to 20% of the workers, rather than each worker doing it 20% of the time. As a result, engineers quickly differentiate and stratify in the workplace. You may be one of the 20% in your particular area of interest. If you're doing the kind of work that most engineers tend to avoid, you will never be unemployed. ;-)
    - ncmncm 7y ago
      I got a degree in EE, but spent a year in CS (don't ask). Some years back I totted up what have used since graduation that I actually learned in class. I didn't get a CS degree because it is too easy -- you just read the book. So I didn't learn any CS there, I had already read the book. The only thing I have used since graduation, for work, that I actually studied for a class was big-O notation and reasoning. But! Every week, in every engineering class, they assigned problem sets. Every week I read them through and knew, with certainty, there was no way I could do them. Then, every week I turned them in, completed correctly. So that was what I really learned in school: that I have no real sense of what I can learn to do, and do. Since then, I have just done things, without worrying about whether I was really capable.
  - majewsky 7y ago
    > I regularly have to design complex systems and also do correctness proofs for isolated functions. So just like any other engineering job?
Boxxed 7y ago
To add my anecdotes to the pile, my experience is that those going into software jobs as a backup plan make significantly less and do significantly different work. They generally just don't have the skill base nor experience to command the same level of salary.
- bilbo0s 7y ago
  I don't imagine this is true at a place like Google.
analog31 7y ago
You compete. It was certainly my backup plan. I never took a CS course, but figured that I could be a programmer if physics and math didn't work out. In fact I went through college with no employment-related objectives. But to be fair, CS also treats programming as a backup plan. That's why there are coding interviews. How many CS majors actually get "CS jobs," i.e., pursuing the advancement of computer science? Probably the same number of physics majors who get physics research jobs. The rest become programmers.

freyr 7y ago

Have a non-CS PhD and “made it” in my field, but joined FANG to make 2X as much money. I mean, why not? You should have an upper hand though with a CS degree. I had to learn everything on my own, and there are still areas that I don’t know and you should.

josteink 7y ago

Can confirm. EE major with computers and programming as a hobby since I was a kid. When my major didn’t work out, I managed to land a IT-job instead and I’ve been here since.

ForHackernews 7y ago

Software engineering is not a "CS job". Computer science is a research field that has very little to do with the workaday business of creating good reliable software. Developers would do well to realize that they're skilled labor, not academics or superstar artists, and start behaving accordingly.

gm224 7y ago
I regularly have to design complex systems and also do correctness proofs for isolated functions. But I see the error in my ways and humbly realize that I'm just "skilled labor". Really, if you compare the level of thinking of an average developer to an average academic, the academic often has nothing but his degree. The level of parroting and complete lack of critical thinking is widespread among academics.
- analog31 7y ago
  Not strictly related to programming, but in general, most engineers don't use the stuff that they learned in college. If it's maybe 20% of the work, it will go to 20% of the workers, rather than each worker doing it 20% of the time. As a result, engineers quickly differentiate and stratify in the workplace. You may be one of the 20% in your particular area of interest. If you're doing the kind of work that most engineers tend to avoid, you will never be unemployed. ;-)
  - ncmncm 7y ago
    I got a degree in EE, but spent a year in CS (don't ask). Some years back I totted up what have used since graduation that I actually learned in class. I didn't get a CS degree because it is too easy -- you just read the book. So I didn't learn any CS there, I had already read the book. The only thing I have used since graduation, for work, that I actually studied for a class was big-O notation and reasoning. But! Every week, in every engineering class, they assigned problem sets. Every week I read them through and knew, with certainty, there was no way I could do them. Then, every week I turned them in, completed correctly. So that was what I really learned in school: that I have no real sense of what I can learn to do, and do. Since then, I have just done things, without worrying about whether I was really capable.
- majewsky 7y ago
  > I regularly have to design complex systems and also do correctness proofs for isolated functions. So just like any other engineering job?

Boxxed 7y ago

To add my anecdotes to the pile, my experience is that those going into software jobs as a backup plan make significantly less and do significantly different work. They generally just don't have the skill base nor experience to command the same level of salary.

bilbo0s 7y ago
I don't imagine this is true at a place like Google.

analog31 7y ago

You compete. It was certainly my backup plan. I never took a CS course, but figured that I could be a programmer if physics and math didn't work out. In fact I went through college with no employment-related objectives. But to be fair, CS also treats programming as a backup plan. That's why there are coding interviews. How many CS majors actually get "CS jobs," i.e., pursuing the advancement of computer science? Probably the same number of physics majors who get physics research jobs. The rest become programmers.