22 ms·

I have had Android devices for many years and this issue makes me want to seriously consider an is device. If apple really has nothing like this bank of locatio

I have had Android devices for many years and this issue makes me want to seriously consider an is device. If apple really has nothing like this bank of locations stored and centrally searchable, why would anyone who cares be okay with Android? I feel like I need more info about Apple's security reliability.

shittyadmin 8y ago
Most of this can be disabled simply by disabling Location History. Apple is definitely better for not keeping this kind of thing - however even with an Apple or Librem device, your carrier will store your location and hand it off to law enforcement more readily than even Google would, so keep that in mind. Being concerned about your location privacy and having a connected cell phone in your possession at all times are mutually exclusive ideas with the current state of things. Short of major legal changes it will not be possible.
- inapis 8y ago
  Google still stores location history even if you switch it off. There was a report on this just a couple of weeks ago. The point about carriers is the most valid though. That’s the weakest point in location privacy.
- wlesieutre 8y ago
  > Most of this can be disabled simply by disabling Location History That disables the location tracking specifically for the purposes of location history, but not any of google’s location tracking for other purposes. Who’s to say whether that other data like “was at X when you opened google maps” ends up in the same location database that these warrants are querying? https://www.wired.com/story/google-location-tracking-turn-off/ https://www.wired.com/story/google-location-tracking-turn-of...
  - shittyadmin 8y ago
    Yes, this is why I said most of what I feel is problematic, you're able to disable automatic location collection but not all location collection. Your opening maps question is an interesting one, I automatically assume any data that goes to their servers is fair game, so if I'm asking Google to give me driving directions or even open a map and show me where I am (which requires loading map data for the area), I'm clearly making that choice. I suppose it's possible they could behave better, but once data leaves my device, it's out of my control and I have to assume the worst.
- propogandist 8y ago
  This is false. This is from congressional testimony in the past month that hasn't gotten virtually any coverage from the traditional media outlets: >Hawley pointed out on Tuesday that a user's location is sent to Google hundreds of times a day, even when the phone is not in use. In fact, Hawley said, a user's location is tracked "every four minutes, or 14 times an hour, roughly 340 times during a 24-hour period," even when the phone is not in use. >DeVries confessed that "location information is absolutely core to making a mobile phone work the way that you want it to work." He said that Google has an "optional service" called Location History that is opt-in and "can collect location over time when people turn that on." >"But Google collects geolocation data even if Location History is turned off, correct?" Hawley pressed. >"Yes, senator, it can in order to operate other services—" Google's privacy head was passing off the location data harvesting as something that is necessary for the phone to function, which is untrue. They are using the devices to surveil on people, which, among other things, allows intelligence agencies to outsource an important task. https://pjmedia.com/trending/google-tracks-you-even-when-loc.. https://pjmedia.com/trending/google-tracks-you-even-when-loc.... The actual hearing itself: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwyuCtbK3qw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwyuCtbK3qw
  - shittyadmin 8y ago
    I think you're misunderstanding what was said in that testimony. Yes, Google still collects your location if you turn off location history and then use Google Maps or an app calls their fused location API, they do not periodically collect it unprompted if you have location history off. That's why I used the word "most". Because I feel it's obvious that they'll get your location in the other cases. Your first link is broken, but if you think I'm mistaken here, please point me in the direction of a technical analysis showing this, I'd love to see it.
  - gscott 8y ago
    Also your phone connects to up to 7+ cell towers at once giving good location history to AT&T who then sells your location history as a product to law enforcement. We are tracked multiple ways. Logging into Gmail gives your ip and a less precise but overall description of where you are, etc.
voodootrucker 8y ago
Apple won't save you. Qualcom does this in the baseband, from what I understand: https://firmwaresecurity.com/2018/05/18/qualcomm-izat-and-baseband-location-tracking/ https://firmwaresecurity.com/2018/05/18/qualcomm-izat-and-ba... Of course the cell companies have it too, along with anyone they sell the data too. My recent work with location smart showed that verizon was the only carrier that required user consent for that.
distant_hat 8y ago
Telcos happily sell this data with even less restrictions. Though it is not as fine a granularity as GPS data, but in dense places it is pretty good.

shittyadmin 8y ago

Most of this can be disabled simply by disabling Location History. Apple is definitely better for not keeping this kind of thing - however even with an Apple or Librem device, your carrier will store your location and hand it off to law enforcement more readily than even Google would, so keep that in mind. Being concerned about your location privacy and having a connected cell phone in your possession at all times are mutually exclusive ideas with the current state of things. Short of major legal changes it will not be possible.

inapis 8y ago
Google still stores location history even if you switch it off. There was a report on this just a couple of weeks ago. The point about carriers is the most valid though. That’s the weakest point in location privacy.
wlesieutre 8y ago
> Most of this can be disabled simply by disabling Location History That disables the location tracking specifically for the purposes of location history, but not any of google’s location tracking for other purposes. Who’s to say whether that other data like “was at X when you opened google maps” ends up in the same location database that these warrants are querying? https://www.wired.com/story/google-location-tracking-turn-off/ https://www.wired.com/story/google-location-tracking-turn-of...
- shittyadmin 8y ago
  Yes, this is why I said most of what I feel is problematic, you're able to disable automatic location collection but not all location collection. Your opening maps question is an interesting one, I automatically assume any data that goes to their servers is fair game, so if I'm asking Google to give me driving directions or even open a map and show me where I am (which requires loading map data for the area), I'm clearly making that choice. I suppose it's possible they could behave better, but once data leaves my device, it's out of my control and I have to assume the worst.
propogandist 8y ago
This is false. This is from congressional testimony in the past month that hasn't gotten virtually any coverage from the traditional media outlets: >Hawley pointed out on Tuesday that a user's location is sent to Google hundreds of times a day, even when the phone is not in use. In fact, Hawley said, a user's location is tracked "every four minutes, or 14 times an hour, roughly 340 times during a 24-hour period," even when the phone is not in use. >DeVries confessed that "location information is absolutely core to making a mobile phone work the way that you want it to work." He said that Google has an "optional service" called Location History that is opt-in and "can collect location over time when people turn that on." >"But Google collects geolocation data even if Location History is turned off, correct?" Hawley pressed. >"Yes, senator, it can in order to operate other services—" Google's privacy head was passing off the location data harvesting as something that is necessary for the phone to function, which is untrue. They are using the devices to surveil on people, which, among other things, allows intelligence agencies to outsource an important task. https://pjmedia.com/trending/google-tracks-you-even-when-loc.. https://pjmedia.com/trending/google-tracks-you-even-when-loc.... The actual hearing itself: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwyuCtbK3qw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwyuCtbK3qw
- shittyadmin 8y ago
  I think you're misunderstanding what was said in that testimony. Yes, Google still collects your location if you turn off location history and then use Google Maps or an app calls their fused location API, they do not periodically collect it unprompted if you have location history off. That's why I used the word "most". Because I feel it's obvious that they'll get your location in the other cases. Your first link is broken, but if you think I'm mistaken here, please point me in the direction of a technical analysis showing this, I'd love to see it.
- gscott 8y ago
  Also your phone connects to up to 7+ cell towers at once giving good location history to AT&T who then sells your location history as a product to law enforcement. We are tracked multiple ways. Logging into Gmail gives your ip and a less precise but overall description of where you are, etc.

voodootrucker 8y ago

Apple won't save you. Qualcom does this in the baseband, from what I understand: https://firmwaresecurity.com/2018/05/18/qualcomm-izat-and-baseband-location-tracking/ https://firmwaresecurity.com/2018/05/18/qualcomm-izat-and-ba... Of course the cell companies have it too, along with anyone they sell the data too. My recent work with location smart showed that verizon was the only carrier that required user consent for that.

distant_hat 8y ago

Telcos happily sell this data with even less restrictions. Though it is not as fine a granularity as GPS data, but in dense places it is pretty good.