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> There is a strong moral argument to be made that the government has no rights to secrets kept from its citizenry. Such arguments don't hold water when the pr

> There is a strong moral argument to be made that the government has no rights to secrets kept from its citizenry. Such arguments don't hold water when the process of classification is determined by a fairly elected representative of that citizenry. Americans could elect somebody who promised to ditch classification altogether, but they wouldn't, because reality is not so clear.

primrose 8y ago
Mob rule doesn't determine morality or even the best way of doing things. Moreover, this is assuming that we are given access to vote for actual candidates with varying positions instead of weeding out ones that don't toe the line. Democracy being the least worst option doesn't absolve it from criticism.
int_19h 8y ago
Fair elections require informed voters, though. If government commits human rights violations on their behalf without telling them, I don't think that's particularly informed. Yes, they could still vote to abolish state secrets altogether. But I think knowledge about how secrecy is abused is also very much relevant to an informed vote on such a matter.
- walterstucco 8y ago
  But is it abused? Secrecy is for secrecy, keeping things secret is not an abuse, the abuse is what they have done, not that it was secret. And anyway the US abuses are just a drop in the ocean when on the other side the abuses are public and used as a display of power. And I'm not even an US supported ...
sneak 8y ago
You cannot give consent if you are not informed about that to which you are consenting.
- walterstucco 8y ago
  But you can't give consent if the information is biased... WikiLeaks Is not a neutral source of information. It had (has) an agenda What about leaking personal informations of everyone involved in the WL operations? Do you think everyone of them would come out clear?
likeclockwork 8y ago
How would you elect someone to get that done when every issue is tied to a hundred other issues in the same candidate and basically none of them will have any meaningful progress made during their term? Specific opinions cannot be expressed by electing a "representative".
- mike10010100 8y ago
  > How would you elect someone to get that done when every issue is tied to a hundred other issues in the same candidate and basically none of them will have any meaningful progress made during their term? Elect an idiot like Trump who leaks secrets to foreign governments at the drop of a hat?

primrose 8y ago

Mob rule doesn't determine morality or even the best way of doing things. Moreover, this is assuming that we are given access to vote for actual candidates with varying positions instead of weeding out ones that don't toe the line. Democracy being the least worst option doesn't absolve it from criticism.

int_19h 8y ago

Fair elections require informed voters, though. If government commits human rights violations on their behalf without telling them, I don't think that's particularly informed. Yes, they could still vote to abolish state secrets altogether. But I think knowledge about how secrecy is abused is also very much relevant to an informed vote on such a matter.

walterstucco 8y ago
But is it abused? Secrecy is for secrecy, keeping things secret is not an abuse, the abuse is what they have done, not that it was secret. And anyway the US abuses are just a drop in the ocean when on the other side the abuses are public and used as a display of power. And I'm not even an US supported ...

sneak 8y ago

You cannot give consent if you are not informed about that to which you are consenting.

walterstucco 8y ago
But you can't give consent if the information is biased... WikiLeaks Is not a neutral source of information. It had (has) an agenda What about leaking personal informations of everyone involved in the WL operations? Do you think everyone of them would come out clear?

likeclockwork 8y ago

How would you elect someone to get that done when every issue is tied to a hundred other issues in the same candidate and basically none of them will have any meaningful progress made during their term? Specific opinions cannot be expressed by electing a "representative".

mike10010100 8y ago
> How would you elect someone to get that done when every issue is tied to a hundred other issues in the same candidate and basically none of them will have any meaningful progress made during their term? Elect an idiot like Trump who leaks secrets to foreign governments at the drop of a hat?