13 ms·

I turned off almost all tracking in Android a while ago, but never scanned the data it collected. I recently looked at what data was associated with my Google

by sbov 8y ago

I turned off almost all tracking in Android a while ago, but never scanned the data it collected. I recently looked at what data was associated with my Google account, and there I saw: every voice command I ever issued my phone, and when I used what app. I could see at 9:30am I opened my camera app. I can see I viewed a notification at 9:45am. And so on. I deleted it all, but my guess is it probably still lives somewhere in Google. I knew they tracked search. I knew they would use my voice usage to make it better. I didn't realize how pathological they were in tracking literally everything I did with my phone and tying it to my account, down to what apps I opened and when. It's creepy as hell. It really made me want to just exit this whole smartphone shitfest, because I have to assume they're still tracking all this data, just not making it visible. Maybe Apple is better, maybe not. The problem is I can't know for sure, and if they lie - what could I do about it anyways?

andrei_says_ 8y ago
In addition to this, if the data exists, at some point in the future it will be compromised. The only way to avoid this is to not collect it. And to anyone who says “I have nothing to hide” — imagine your worst enemy having all this information about you easily searchable with the intention to weaponize it for their purpose.
- tssva 8y ago
  I would guess that most of the people not worried because they have nothing to hide don't have a worst enemy.
  - mirimir 8y ago
    Or at least, a worst enemy that they don't see as one.
- godelski 8y ago
  > And to anyone who says “I have nothing to hide” To anyone saying that, they need to stop quoting Nazi propaganda. Term is coined by (but not originating from) Goebbels. Note: The origin is from a fictional dystopia.
  - andrei_says_ 8y ago
    Thank you. A great way to address the sentiment.
    - godelski 8y ago
      I mean I get why people say it. But we have to also be honest with ourselves. If it is something (strongly) pushed by societies that we utterly despise (be the Nazis, the dystopian writing of Sinclair (origin), or Voldemort's puppet state), it probably doesn't align with the beliefs of a free society. The phrase is too frequently used by societies that we consider to not be free, being pervasive enough that a single use in literature would tell you that the characters live in an oppressive regime. Yet somehow we can make that connection but don't make it when actual politicians and citizens repeat it. Personally I feel sickened that the phrase is so pervasive in our society (goes beyond the US). Just as I'd be if people were constantly saying "Work will set you free."
- matz1 8y ago
  It's not feasible. It requires all the players to cooperate and one leak will ruin it. We will have to use punishment as deterrent for someone who is harming other with all of this information.
- andrerm 8y ago
  No need for a worst enemy. Just expose your email and password on Facebook or Twitter and tomorrow all your personal and professional contacts will be thinking you are crazy. Maybe you'll be able to save your relationship. Certainly not your job. Edit: spelling
dleslie 8y ago
They track and consume and correlate/associate everything. That is their business: they sell their ability to know everything about you to anyone willing to pay for that information. All of their products feed into their core business. Google is the most invasive and predatory attack on privacy ever; by no small margin.
- SquareWheel 8y ago
  >they sell their ability to know everything about you to anyone willing to pay for that information Can you prove this? Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and that's a real whopper of a claim.
  - bravoetch 8y ago
    It's not an extraordinary claim, it's literally what google claim to do by selling targeted ads.
    - dleslie 8y ago
      It's somewhat concerning that anyone would consider it an extraordinary claim. I wonder how it is that they think Google rationalises providing so many free or below cost products to consumers? Edit: downvoted without response. K.
    - SquareWheel 8y ago
      Where do I buy this user data? I would like to purchase it. dleslie claims they will sell it to "anyone willing to pay for that information". > it's literally what google claim to do It's literally the opposite of what Google claims to do. https://safety.google/privacy/ads-and-data/ https://safety.google/privacy/ads-and-data/
      - zaroth 8y ago
        Please be more charitable with your interpretation if you want to debate the merits of what is being claimed. > they sell their ability to know everything about you to anyone willing to pay for that information This does not actually claim they will sell you a copy of the raw data. That is Google’s “crown jewels” and they protect it fairly well, although not always perfectly. In the past you could see the query on a referral URL. In the past you could see PII coming through this way as well. You could target ads against this PII, etc. But anyway, what Google does is let you target ads based on their absolute knowledge of the user. What you are Searching for, where you are Searching for it, etc. Google tracks you incensently so that they can more effectively sell things to you, or sell others the ability to sell things to you. But increasingly it seems that Google tracks its users just because it can. Just in case that clickstream or that app history or that voice recording might become useful someday. Google tracks you like a paranoid government might track its citizens, afraid that some scrap of data might come back one day to be useful in its almighty question for [control / dollars / training an AI / optimization / whatever]. The nominal cost of storing one more piece of metadata is zero, the potential future value seemingly limitless, and perhaps the fear of Management asking for some piece of data you didn’t think to record is so great, they seem to just record all the things.
HenryBemis 8y ago
I installed NoRoot Firewall, it has a "Access Log" tab, that logs all connections (allowed or block). My phone just didn't shut up'. Every other second some app (that wasn't in the foreground) was talking to some IP. My battery was getting slaughtered and my privacy as well. I proceeded to disable the "Run in background" almost every application, kept only a handful that are really needed (e.g. Signal). Since then my battery lasts for 3 days, and my "Access Log" only moves minimally.
- refurb 8y ago
  Question - does stopping apps from running in the background actually help privacy? Can’t the app just buffer all that data (including time stamps) and just send it when you use it again? Or is the app truly “turned off”?
  - wurst_case 8y ago
    This is how I do it. I cache everything I need to send and send it when I can. I do it in the context if sales information in places with poor connectivity like music festivals.
  - aembleton 8y ago
    The app can't collect and buffer data if it is not running.
    - speeq 8y ago
      Are you sure? I’m currently learning how to develop apps for Android and during my testing I was surprised that you’re able to send silent data-only notifications to devices, even when the app is closed / removed from the drawer. You’re able to run background functions like update a local SQLite database but I haven’t tried making requests to a backend server yet (my guess is it works too) or accessing any sensors.
      - HenryBemis 8y ago
        I don't develop apps for Android, but I do for iOS. I will assume that my operating systems knowledge though is from Windows/Unix. To use Windows terminology, an app is running either as 'manually launcher's or as a service (system launched). Android (at least my Honor phone and any tablet I ever used) gives me the ability to manually intervene and change the auto-launch and the background running. I windows that would be things found (and 'killed') in SysInternals AutoRuns. I don't leave 'everything on default' in the power/background running settings, and thus I don't give the apps the option to do what the device decidsd. Plus with the firewall I Block all the nasties (e.g. 31.13.x.x - FB, or the various IPs for ads and tracking).
stordoff 8y ago
And I think most people just don't realise. My grandmother was setting up a new Kindle Fire tablet recently, and asked me "Do I want to set up Alexa?". I just said "Do you want Amazon having a recording of everything you say to it?", and she replied, "Oh, no I don't then", but I doubt it had even crossed her mind before.
nukeop 8y ago
A smartphone is a device designed on all levels to be used against you, not by you. In a better world you'd have a choice on the driver level to give or refuse access to any data you choose, or to send fake empty data. With every version of Android it's progressively being made more and more useful to Google and advertisers, and less useful to you. At this point they should be given away for free, because paying for something that is designed to enslave and exploit you is just silly.
sandov 8y ago
Have you tried Lineage OS?. It's an open source Android distribution, it doesn't include Google's proprietary stuff (Google Play services and such, even though you can include it if you really want to) and works surprisingly well.
JohnFen 8y ago
> It really made me want to just exit this whole smartphone shitfest Yes, this is why I've decided to bail on the smartphone nonsense as well. To make the problem worse, it isn't just Google you need to protect yourself from. You also need to protect yourself from the vast majority of apps that are out there as well. It's become an intractable security nightmare, and I no longer consider smartphones as fit for purpose.

by sbov 8y ago

andrei_says_ 8y ago

In addition to this, if the data exists, at some point in the future it will be compromised. The only way to avoid this is to not collect it. And to anyone who says “I have nothing to hide” — imagine your worst enemy having all this information about you easily searchable with the intention to weaponize it for their purpose.

tssva 8y ago
I would guess that most of the people not worried because they have nothing to hide don't have a worst enemy.
- mirimir 8y ago
  Or at least, a worst enemy that they don't see as one.
godelski 8y ago
> And to anyone who says “I have nothing to hide” To anyone saying that, they need to stop quoting Nazi propaganda. Term is coined by (but not originating from) Goebbels. Note: The origin is from a fictional dystopia.
- andrei_says_ 8y ago
  Thank you. A great way to address the sentiment.
  - godelski 8y ago
    I mean I get why people say it. But we have to also be honest with ourselves. If it is something (strongly) pushed by societies that we utterly despise (be the Nazis, the dystopian writing of Sinclair (origin), or Voldemort's puppet state), it probably doesn't align with the beliefs of a free society. The phrase is too frequently used by societies that we consider to not be free, being pervasive enough that a single use in literature would tell you that the characters live in an oppressive regime. Yet somehow we can make that connection but don't make it when actual politicians and citizens repeat it. Personally I feel sickened that the phrase is so pervasive in our society (goes beyond the US). Just as I'd be if people were constantly saying "Work will set you free."
matz1 8y ago
It's not feasible. It requires all the players to cooperate and one leak will ruin it. We will have to use punishment as deterrent for someone who is harming other with all of this information.
andrerm 8y ago
No need for a worst enemy. Just expose your email and password on Facebook or Twitter and tomorrow all your personal and professional contacts will be thinking you are crazy. Maybe you'll be able to save your relationship. Certainly not your job. Edit: spelling

dleslie 8y ago

They track and consume and correlate/associate everything. That is their business: they sell their ability to know everything about you to anyone willing to pay for that information. All of their products feed into their core business. Google is the most invasive and predatory attack on privacy ever; by no small margin.

SquareWheel 8y ago
>they sell their ability to know everything about you to anyone willing to pay for that information Can you prove this? Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and that's a real whopper of a claim.
- bravoetch 8y ago
  It's not an extraordinary claim, it's literally what google claim to do by selling targeted ads.
  - dleslie 8y ago
    It's somewhat concerning that anyone would consider it an extraordinary claim. I wonder how it is that they think Google rationalises providing so many free or below cost products to consumers? Edit: downvoted without response. K.
  - SquareWheel 8y ago
    Where do I buy this user data? I would like to purchase it. dleslie claims they will sell it to "anyone willing to pay for that information". > it's literally what google claim to do It's literally the opposite of what Google claims to do. https://safety.google/privacy/ads-and-data/ https://safety.google/privacy/ads-and-data/
    - zaroth 8y ago
      Please be more charitable with your interpretation if you want to debate the merits of what is being claimed. > they sell their ability to know everything about you to anyone willing to pay for that information This does not actually claim they will sell you a copy of the raw data. That is Google’s “crown jewels” and they protect it fairly well, although not always perfectly. In the past you could see the query on a referral URL. In the past you could see PII coming through this way as well. You could target ads against this PII, etc. But anyway, what Google does is let you target ads based on their absolute knowledge of the user. What you are Searching for, where you are Searching for it, etc. Google tracks you incensently so that they can more effectively sell things to you, or sell others the ability to sell things to you. But increasingly it seems that Google tracks its users just because it can. Just in case that clickstream or that app history or that voice recording might become useful someday. Google tracks you like a paranoid government might track its citizens, afraid that some scrap of data might come back one day to be useful in its almighty question for [control / dollars / training an AI / optimization / whatever]. The nominal cost of storing one more piece of metadata is zero, the potential future value seemingly limitless, and perhaps the fear of Management asking for some piece of data you didn’t think to record is so great, they seem to just record all the things.

HenryBemis 8y ago

I installed NoRoot Firewall, it has a "Access Log" tab, that logs all connections (allowed or block). My phone just didn't shut up'. Every other second some app (that wasn't in the foreground) was talking to some IP. My battery was getting slaughtered and my privacy as well. I proceeded to disable the "Run in background" almost every application, kept only a handful that are really needed (e.g. Signal). Since then my battery lasts for 3 days, and my "Access Log" only moves minimally.

refurb 8y ago
Question - does stopping apps from running in the background actually help privacy? Can’t the app just buffer all that data (including time stamps) and just send it when you use it again? Or is the app truly “turned off”?
- wurst_case 8y ago
  This is how I do it. I cache everything I need to send and send it when I can. I do it in the context if sales information in places with poor connectivity like music festivals.
- aembleton 8y ago
  The app can't collect and buffer data if it is not running.
  - speeq 8y ago
    Are you sure? I’m currently learning how to develop apps for Android and during my testing I was surprised that you’re able to send silent data-only notifications to devices, even when the app is closed / removed from the drawer. You’re able to run background functions like update a local SQLite database but I haven’t tried making requests to a backend server yet (my guess is it works too) or accessing any sensors.
    - HenryBemis 8y ago
      I don't develop apps for Android, but I do for iOS. I will assume that my operating systems knowledge though is from Windows/Unix. To use Windows terminology, an app is running either as 'manually launcher's or as a service (system launched). Android (at least my Honor phone and any tablet I ever used) gives me the ability to manually intervene and change the auto-launch and the background running. I windows that would be things found (and 'killed') in SysInternals AutoRuns. I don't leave 'everything on default' in the power/background running settings, and thus I don't give the apps the option to do what the device decidsd. Plus with the firewall I Block all the nasties (e.g. 31.13.x.x - FB, or the various IPs for ads and tracking).

stordoff 8y ago

And I think most people just don't realise. My grandmother was setting up a new Kindle Fire tablet recently, and asked me "Do I want to set up Alexa?". I just said "Do you want Amazon having a recording of everything you say to it?", and she replied, "Oh, no I don't then", but I doubt it had even crossed her mind before.

nukeop 8y ago

A smartphone is a device designed on all levels to be used against you, not by you. In a better world you'd have a choice on the driver level to give or refuse access to any data you choose, or to send fake empty data. With every version of Android it's progressively being made more and more useful to Google and advertisers, and less useful to you. At this point they should be given away for free, because paying for something that is designed to enslave and exploit you is just silly.

sandov 8y ago

Have you tried Lineage OS?. It's an open source Android distribution, it doesn't include Google's proprietary stuff (Google Play services and such, even though you can include it if you really want to) and works surprisingly well.

JohnFen 8y ago

> It really made me want to just exit this whole smartphone shitfest Yes, this is why I've decided to bail on the smartphone nonsense as well. To make the problem worse, it isn't just Google you need to protect yourself from. You also need to protect yourself from the vast majority of apps that are out there as well. It's become an intractable security nightmare, and I no longer consider smartphones as fit for purpose.