3 ms·

Sorry I'm from the UK so this sounds really surreal. The USA was tired of politicians lying to them so they elected... Trump? Help me out here.

cedivad 8y ago
Just like Thiel said before becoming the most hated famous person in the valley, voters were desperate for an outsider. The politicians == liar equivalency was well established in people's minds and they wanted to try something different. "Drain the swamp" was an amazing slogan that worked perfectly for them. (Italian here). And as an Italian I will say that sounds like what Berlusconi was riding on during his first election.
int_19h 8y ago
It's largely about him saying things directly instead of using the traditional dog whistles, at least on the issues that his target audience was most concerned about. In "normal" politics, you're allowed to imply it all, so long as you coach it in the language that is appropriate for the times. Here's one historical example: "You start out in 1954 by saying, "Nigger, nigger, nigger". By 1968 you can't say "nigger"—that hurts you. Backfires. So you say stuff like forced busing, states' rights and all that stuff. You're getting so abstract now [that] you're talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you're talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is [that] blacks get hurt worse than whites. And subconsciously maybe that is part of it. I'm not saying that. But I'm saying that if it is getting that abstract, and that coded, that we are doing away with the racial problem one way or the other. You follow me—because obviously sitting around saying, "We want to cut this", is much more abstract than even the busing thing, and a hell of a lot more abstract than "Nigger, nigger". So, any way you look at it, race is coming on the backbone." This is Lee Atwater, explaining the Republican "southern strategy", and its evolution over time. But the same happened on most everything else. And then comes Trump, and straight up says that Mexican immigrants are rapists, and Muslims need to be banned. Which is exactly what most of his base were thinking - so hearing him say it out loud earned him that "honest man who says things as they are" reputation among them.
- s_y_n_t_a_x 8y ago
  This comment is so far out of touch with reality. He never said Mexicans are rapist, he never said ban all Muslims. There is racism on both sides, both in the minority. Democrats/Dixiecrats had a racist past as well. I'm sure you'll link soundbites from liberal leaning sites. But his supporters know what he meant, we don't take it literally that he thinks all Mexicans are racist. My wife and her Mexican family fully support him.
  - int_19h 8y ago
    I don't need to link to soundbites from liberal leaning sites for this. It's all two clicks away on YouTube, for anybody willing to watch. I also have an interesting perspective on die-hard Trump supporters. You see, despite being a liberal, I'm also pro-gun - and so I end up in many of the same political spaces side by side with them. So I get to hear a lot of unchecked, unfiltered in-group talk. It's actually far worse than a literal take on what he says, especially wrt Muslims. I've heard people say things like "I hate Muslims" and "we should strip them all of citizenship and deport them", with nodding all around. I've seen police officers describe the people they "serve as protect" as filthy subhuman animals - not some people, note, but literally the entire (majority Black) population of their precinct. And so on, and so forth.
    - s_y_n_t_a_x 8y ago
      There are bad eggs on both sides. Grouping people together based on their political beliefs doesn't help. I'm libertarian, economically conservative. Pro gun, pro abortion (within limits), pro legalizing drugs, pro borders, atheist. I have lived all over the world, and racism/prejudice is in many forms. Blacks hating whites, whites hating blacks, asians hating whites, Mexicans hating blacks. And that's just with race, it's even worse when it comes to political beliefs and religious beliefs. It's became okay to completely group people together and label an entire belief something based on the actions of a minor percentage of the group. What you're doing is no better than those racists you've had the misfortune to deal with. There are plenty nice people down here that don't feel that way.

cedivad 8y ago

Just like Thiel said before becoming the most hated famous person in the valley, voters were desperate for an outsider. The politicians == liar equivalency was well established in people's minds and they wanted to try something different. "Drain the swamp" was an amazing slogan that worked perfectly for them. (Italian here). And as an Italian I will say that sounds like what Berlusconi was riding on during his first election.

int_19h 8y ago

It's largely about him saying things directly instead of using the traditional dog whistles, at least on the issues that his target audience was most concerned about. In "normal" politics, you're allowed to imply it all, so long as you coach it in the language that is appropriate for the times. Here's one historical example: "You start out in 1954 by saying, "Nigger, nigger, nigger". By 1968 you can't say "nigger"—that hurts you. Backfires. So you say stuff like forced busing, states' rights and all that stuff. You're getting so abstract now [that] you're talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you're talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is [that] blacks get hurt worse than whites. And subconsciously maybe that is part of it. I'm not saying that. But I'm saying that if it is getting that abstract, and that coded, that we are doing away with the racial problem one way or the other. You follow me—because obviously sitting around saying, "We want to cut this", is much more abstract than even the busing thing, and a hell of a lot more abstract than "Nigger, nigger". So, any way you look at it, race is coming on the backbone." This is Lee Atwater, explaining the Republican "southern strategy", and its evolution over time. But the same happened on most everything else. And then comes Trump, and straight up says that Mexican immigrants are rapists, and Muslims need to be banned. Which is exactly what most of his base were thinking - so hearing him say it out loud earned him that "honest man who says things as they are" reputation among them.

s_y_n_t_a_x 8y ago
This comment is so far out of touch with reality. He never said Mexicans are rapist, he never said ban all Muslims. There is racism on both sides, both in the minority. Democrats/Dixiecrats had a racist past as well. I'm sure you'll link soundbites from liberal leaning sites. But his supporters know what he meant, we don't take it literally that he thinks all Mexicans are racist. My wife and her Mexican family fully support him.
- int_19h 8y ago
  I don't need to link to soundbites from liberal leaning sites for this. It's all two clicks away on YouTube, for anybody willing to watch. I also have an interesting perspective on die-hard Trump supporters. You see, despite being a liberal, I'm also pro-gun - and so I end up in many of the same political spaces side by side with them. So I get to hear a lot of unchecked, unfiltered in-group talk. It's actually far worse than a literal take on what he says, especially wrt Muslims. I've heard people say things like "I hate Muslims" and "we should strip them all of citizenship and deport them", with nodding all around. I've seen police officers describe the people they "serve as protect" as filthy subhuman animals - not some people, note, but literally the entire (majority Black) population of their precinct. And so on, and so forth.
  - s_y_n_t_a_x 8y ago
    There are bad eggs on both sides. Grouping people together based on their political beliefs doesn't help. I'm libertarian, economically conservative. Pro gun, pro abortion (within limits), pro legalizing drugs, pro borders, atheist. I have lived all over the world, and racism/prejudice is in many forms. Blacks hating whites, whites hating blacks, asians hating whites, Mexicans hating blacks. And that's just with race, it's even worse when it comes to political beliefs and religious beliefs. It's became okay to completely group people together and label an entire belief something based on the actions of a minor percentage of the group. What you're doing is no better than those racists you've had the misfortune to deal with. There are plenty nice people down here that don't feel that way.