22 ms·
Americans Are Delaying Health Care Until Tax Refunds Arrive
- Patrick_Devine 8y agoThis is insane given that the executive branch has been jiggering around with the withholding amounts for the entire year. Yes, you probably paid slightly less in tax during the year, but unless you were paying attention to your federal withholding, you're probably in for a shock with your federal return.
- lotsofpulp 8y agoThe solution to people’s inability to save is not for the government to hold their money hostage.
- symfoniq 8y agoIndeed. I always aim to get no refund or to owe. There is no good reason to give the government an interest-free loan with your own money.
- jaggederest 8y agoExcept that is literally the solution, witness superannuation plans and social security systems around the world.
- lotsofpulp 8y agoNot a big fan of those either, but at least give access to invest the funds in a savings account or the market. I’d rather we teach some basic finance and civic responsibility in school.
- tax_breaks_ 8y agoGee, you mean "civic responsibility" like not rewarding tax avoidance and tax cheats like the orange buffoon and his ilk? Yeah, we're all in favor. These tax changes have raped the lower and middle classes. Trying to be disingenuous about "civic responsibility" and "basic finance" is pretty shitty.
- purple-again 8y agoWhen you take the standard deduction on your return you are engaging in tax avoidance. When you invent a 3rd child that never existed you are engaging in tax evasion.
- jimmy1 8y agoPlease don't turn HackerNews into /r/politics with your hyperbolic, emotional sentiments, and typical left-wing brainwashed talking points. Respond to the content of the comment, rather than hurling appeals to emotion and name calling.
- paulddraper 8y agoAlso a problem.
- village-idiot 8y agoYou can adjust your tax withholdings to reduce your refund. I personally aim to minimize my bill or refund.
- throw0101a 8y ago> The solution to people’s inability to save is not for the government to hold their money hostage. Meanwhile, in the real world where the left-hand side of the Bell curve exists, and where many people have poor impulse control, that actually is the solution to some people's inability to save. Heck, as a student I worked in a union shop where this was actually baked into the collective agreement because of past experience of people not being able to save. It shouldn't necessarily be mandatory, and there are ways to adjust one's withholding taxes, but it isn't all-bad.
- ip26 8y agoBut wouldn't we all be more free, really, if we just gave everyone enough rope to hang themselves & then locked up the left-hand side of the bell curve in debtor's prison?
- azeotropic 8y agoDoes the left hand side of the bell curve actually owe any federal income tax?
- pnutjam 8y agoFICA is always paid, and hits lower wages harder. You know that money just goes to the general fund.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- lotsofpulp 8y agoThen make it a line item in the budget called basic income or savings something transparent, and give it to everyone.
- jfk13 8y agoIt is, actually. Unless you have figured out some previously-unknown way to successfully educate the entire population to be financially responsible?
- peteradio 8y agoWe do have public education but I suppose its too much to make this sort of thing mandatory.
- DangitBobby 8y agoClearly that's not enough. Asserting that it should be and doing what amounts to punishing people because you don't like the way they are isn't going to help.
- sixothree 8y agoIt is easy to ignore the reality of human nature especially for those who are struggling.
- Patrick_Devine 8y agoDefinitely agree. Like others have commented here, you should be trying to minimize your return as much as possible. The point of the article was that people are waiting for their large refunds and are deferring health care until they get those refunds. My point is that many of those people won't actually be getting a return and won't be able to afford the health care that they need.
- outside1234 8y agoWho is getting a tax refund? I got crushed versus last year on my taxes because of the orange buffoon's tax plan.
- mises 8y agoI am curious as to the reason why. Do you live in a state with high state income tax?
- wsdfsayy 8y agoAnyone living in a state with high income and/or property taxes will likely pay more this year given the $10k cap on deductions for state and local taxes which was previously unlimited before the 2018 tax year...
- empath75 8y agoAnyone who pays 10k in state taxes is going to be well into the top 10% of incomes.
- jfim 8y agoTop 10% nationwide or state wide? 10k in state tax in California should be hittable with an entry level software engineer job at Google in the Bay area.
- philwelch 8y agoThat’s still roughly top 10% of incomes, no?
- tellak 8y agoState and property taxes. Not everyone paying exorbitant property taxes is that high in income. Also, income distribution what it is today, 90%tile income is still middle class!
- 8y ago
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- toiletfuneral 8y agoSuch a very smart & cool economic system we’ve constructed.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- mises 8y agoWithholding is an awful idea designed to favor the government over the taxpayer and to psychologically soften the blow of the ridiculous tax rates we pay. It's especially bad with mandatory withholding by the employer. It shouldn't happen. Taxpayers ought to figure out how much they owe and write the check for it at once. This is especially true since consumers can't invest that income or get interest on it: I could get a 6-month CD and make some extra money otherwise.
- jedberg 8y agoI would like that system, but unfortunately most of our fellow citizens would end up broke come tax time. Most people simply say "I can spend until my bank account is empty". That's why most people choose impound accounts when they get a mortgage. Because they literally can not budget money for the bi-annual property tax bill, so they have the bank take the money every month. It's also why teachers are offered a 10 check plan or 12 check plan. They get the same money, but most of them choose the 12 check plan, just so they don't have to remember to save money to live in the summer. That's why the banks offer those "save your pennies" plans. Every time you make a debt card charge, they round up to the nearest dollar and then put the rest in a savings account for you. Because people are that bad at budgeting. Can you imagine most of the people you know having the ability to set aside 20% of their check each month and not spending it ever?
- mises 8y agoI get this, and also that it's to help prevent the sticker shock of taxes that can lead to serious backlash. With that said, America is not supposed to be a place where the Nanny State must step in to manage people's lives for them simply because they can't do it themselves. I and my fellow citizens should not have to lose money simply because others choose to waste money. I like the comment lotsofpulp made below: "The solution to people’s inability to save is not for the government to hold their money hostage."
- war1025 8y agoThe government doesn't hold anyone's money hostage. You are free to adjust your W-4 withholdings any time you want. They even have an online calculator to estimate your tax burden and set your withholding properly.
- kartan 8y ago> Out-of-pocket medical spending jumps once the money hits people’s bank accounts. It is a bad thing that tax withholding is one of the few ways Americans can have savings. When you live check to check this can be your only option.
- briandear 8y agoHow is it the only option? If withholding is less, what’s stopping people from saving the reduction? A refund is essentially an interest free loan repayment from the government. Refunds should ideally be zero.
- koolba 8y ago> How is it the only option? It’s not but it’s a lot easier for many people if they don’t realize they have the money. > If withholding is less, what’s stopping people from saving the reduction? Reality. It’s no different then walking around town with a couples $20 bills vs walking around with your pockets empty. Sure you could just not spend any of it but it’s a hell of a lot easier if you don’t even have the option. Not having cash on hand and being forced to make due with less is surprisingly effective.
- vuln 8y ago>Not having cash on hand and being forced to make due with less is surprisingly effective. This is exactly what the Democrats want and push with their agenda. They would rather raise taxes and make every one poor in order to feed into a larger government. Government programs that sound good, but don't actually work out on paper. By keeping the masses poor it's easier to sell them on "social programs" that would assist the poor but never really do.
- krapp 8y agoSocial programs do help the poor. If not for food stamps and free school lunches, many of the poor would simply be left to starve to death. Indigent healthcare, federal student loans, welfare, housing assistance, all of it helps the poor, objectively. And I would be thrilled to pay more taxes if it meant I could go back to college or have health insurance without risking a lifetime of debt either way.
- Spooky23 8y agoThis has been true forever. Everyone is broke after Christmas and refunds turn the lights back on for retail starting in the end of March.
- fma 8y agoYep... Even car sales increase because people have money for the down-payment. A large population of Americans do not have much savings. Could be bad money management, low paying jobs, bad luck (health issues) etc.
- ianai 8y agoPhht, bad money management. When loan sharks are peddling 450% payday loans people are being taken advantage of by corporations. The government needs to practice better money management, not us private citizens. Close tax loopholes.
- xiphias2 8y agoActually both. It was crazy when I read from a person that he preferred paying his rent over eating, but it actually makes sense: if you get to the street, and not able to clean yourself, the chances of getting a job goes down dramatically.
- toast0 8y agoIf you get evicted, you're going to have a lot harder time getting into another apartment, too. It's also a lot easier to get help with food than to get help with a place to live.
- toasterlovin 8y agoAlso food is insanely inexpensive. Doesn’t come anywhere near cost of housing unless you have a large family.
- rootusrootus 8y ago
- geodel 8y agoCanadians with their great health care system seem to think that they need ~250K salary/year to feel comfortable [1] So most people are either too desperate or aspiration too high that no government in the first world can make them happy. 1. https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2018/11/03/average-salary-canada-wealth_a_23579661/ https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2018/11/03/average-salary-cana...
- thinkingkong 8y agoComfort and “being alive” are different.
- robocat 8y agoAnd Canadians think they need $750k for retirement - are they expecting to retire for three years and then die?! https://business.financialpost.com/personal-finance/the-magic-number-for-retirement-savings-is-756000-according-to-poll-of-canadians https://business.financialpost.com/personal-finance/the-magi...
- rlabrecque 8y agoAre you saying that people would blow through $250k/year? lol
- jogjayr 8y agoDoes everyone spend 100% of their salary, no matter how large it is?
- theonemind 8y agoI need to recheck my W-4. As far as I know, I pick the right things there and still get a stupidly large refund.
- rootusrootus 8y agoMake sure you've done 2018 taxes first. For a lot of us the total tax owed went up by some amount while the withholding went down. And just put whatever additional net shows up in your account somewhere for next year.
- tomohawk 8y agoIn Canada, people wait much longer than Americans do for ordinary diagnostic tests. https://www.fraserinstitute.org/studies/waiting-your-turn-wait-times-for-health-care-in-canada-2017 https://www.fraserinstitute.org/studies/waiting-your-turn-wa... Rationing access to healthcare is not the answer.
- djakjxnanjak 8y agoIf you are reading this and find yourself in the same situation... consider decreasing your withholding and have the money deducted into a HSA or FSA instead. You can still use the money for health expenses, and you will also get a 20-30% tax discount.
- intopieces 8y agoNote that the tax benefits of a Health Savings Account are much better than the Flex Spending Account, if you can get it. [0] https://www.investopedia.com/insurance/hsa-vs-fsa/ https://www.investopedia.com/insurance/hsa-vs-fsa/ HSA contributions are: * Deducted from your paycheck and skip all taxes * Allowed to earn interest, tax-free * Carried from year to year * Tax-free when used on health expenses * Flexible amount FSA contributions are: * Deducted from your paycheck and skip all taxes * Not able to accrue interest * "use it or lose it" per year * Fixed Amount
- jasonparallel 8y agoHSA contributions do not have to be deducted from you paycheck and you don't have to use the provider that your employer has selected.
- bryan11 8y agoAs employers switch to High Deductible Health Plans where insurance doesn't kick in until one has spent a deductible of several thousand dollars, many people are delaying health care in general. A doctor's visit that once cost a co-pay of $30 is now frequently a cash price from $130 to $400, plus more for lab work. With higher costs and much of them unknown in advance, many skip getting things checked until it seems absolutely necessary.
- JumpCrisscross 8y ago> High Deductible Health Plans where insurance doesn't kick in until one has spent a deductible of several thousand dollars HDHPs are a great deal for anyone who can set aside the deductible’s value in cash. They are a bad default. But a good thing to consider if you can set aside some cash. (The problem with HSA-compatible plans is they have a maximum deductible. They’re thus almost as expensive as non-HDHP plans.)
- maxxxxx 8y agoThere is definitely a psychological problem. When I had a high deductible plan I always set the max aside but considering the potential cost of a doctors visit I often hesitated. 1000 dollars is still 1000 dollars even if you have set them aside beforehand.
- mgkimsal 8y agowhy is it a problem to have a maximum deductible? Relatedly, it seems like there's roughly some 'max' insurance expects you to pay each year, and you can decide whether to take the risk using a high deductible plan, and potentially not have many expenses, but lower premium, or have higher premium up front. 8 years ago, our HDHP was ... $280/month. It's now north of $800, and the deductible went up. Yes, we're a bit older, too but it's still a bit crazy. $280/month, with high deductible, meant that, in a bad year, we might have $15k in expenses before the insurance covered everything else. Now, it's more like $10k per year in premiums, and another $10k+ before insurance really would kick in. Catastrophic need? It's fine - I don't want to have to face a $400k bill. Day to day? This stinks.
- 0n0n0m0uz 8y agoWould you pay a few % more in taxes knowing that every human in this nation could receive the healthcare they need? I would without a second thought.
- delfinom 8y agoFew more in taxes? Maybe we can redirect some funds pocketed by the military industrial complex instead. Though Boeing and others will fight to the death over their infinite money supply/bailouts.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- paulpauper 8y agoWould not be nearly enough. U.S. health care spending grew 3.9 percent in 2017, reaching $3.5 trillion or $10,739 per person. That exceeds tax federal income tax revenue by about $2 trillion The us govt already spends so much on healthcare.
- colejohnson66 8y agoThe problem isn’t that we don’t have socialized healthcare. The problem is that for some reason, healthcare in this country is ridiculously expensive. We can’t have both; only one or the other. If healthcare is too expensive and you socialize it, the government will be bleeding even more money trying to pay for it all.
- scarejunba 8y agoThe answer is obvious: deregulate. Indian surgeons already perform more heart bypasses more often for a tenth the cost with better outcomes. Down with the AMA. Probably the organization with the most blood on its hands in peacetime America.
- 8y ago
- MagicPropmaker 8y agoWhy are they over-withholding?
- ed_elliott_asc 8y agoWhy why why do you put up with this in America?? I live in the uk and health has always been free at point of use. The cost is spread amongst all tax payers and costs kept low. I honestly don’t understand why not every single American is screaming for access to health services that are literally on their front lawn. I cannot fathom this is any way shape or form.
- garmaine 8y ago> Why why why do you put up with this in America?? What do you suggest we do? > I honestly don’t understand why not every single American is screaming for access to health services that are literally on their front lawn. You think we aren't? You think it matters?
- darkwizard42 8y agoLook at the last election... results speak for themselves, that is why people are confused why this isn't the single largest issue for American people.
- zanny 8y agoFor many Americans, their single largest issue at the moment is whatever their choice of conservative talk radio host told them to hate today.
- garmaine 8y agoWhich election? Neither Hillary nor Trump were in favor of socialized medicine. Bernie was, but the rigged system made sure he wasn’t an option.
- themagician 8y agoWe have 11 nuclear powered aircraft carriers in service in four more on the way. No money for healthcare.
- 8y ago