4 ms·

This is an interesting article, but I think it could be summarized fairly succinctly: trains are amazing for intercity travel in the 100-300mi range, and beyond

This is an interesting article, but I think it could be summarized fairly succinctly: trains are amazing for intercity travel in the 100-300mi range, and beyond that they’re not really competitive against air travel. TLDR; The author basically explains that the old system of good regional (euro national) networks which happened to connect together was almost as fast as the high speed trains but much cheaper and more convenient. When high speed lines are added these international regional lines are typically shut down. Since the high speed trains are expensive this means that the new network basically only serves medium/short distance business travel, where the old network was affordable for anyone to take basically any distance.

maelito 8y ago
> not competitive against air travel Financially, maybe. In terms of the negative externalities impacting climate, high-speed trains are incomparable.
- fetbaffe 8y ago
  Railway on the other hand have negative impact on wildlife when building it. Give it a decade or two and we will have electrical air travel. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19652363 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19652363
  - 0xffff2 8y ago
    No, you absolutely will not. The article you linked is talking about 2/4 seat trainers. Electric simple does not scale to airliner sizes/speeds/distances. We're currently working towards hybrid-electric airliners that may offer some efficiency improvements, and even those are 3-4 decades from commercial operation. Fully electric requires a fundamental breakthrough in battery energy density.
thatfrenchguy 8y ago
> intercity travel in the 100-300mi range Paris-Marseille is 775km (481 miles), 3 hours by train, I don't think anyone actually takes airplanes to do this route if they don't have a connection afterwards.
martinald 8y ago
I'd say more than 300mi. Probably 500-600mi. Eg: Paris-> Montepellier, 3h30 by train. 1h20 by plane. By the time you add an hour for security/checkin at the airport, and the additional hassle of getting to/from the airport vs city centre rail terminals, it's competitive. I think only when you get over 4h then air starts to benefit.
- Xylakant 8y ago
  And even at 4 hours, things really depend: I just travelled about 650km from Berlin to Mannheim in about 5 hours. There’s no airport at the destination, so I’d have to fly to Frankfurt and continue from there. There’s a direct train every hour and considering time to the airport and check-in etc, taking the train is still faster. Air travel wins out on short/medium distances only if both ends of the leg are close to an airport.
  - pintxo 8y ago
    There actually is a direct flight Berlin to Mannheim. Its just a tiny airport n Mannheim.

maelito 8y ago

> not competitive against air travel Financially, maybe. In terms of the negative externalities impacting climate, high-speed trains are incomparable.

fetbaffe 8y ago
Railway on the other hand have negative impact on wildlife when building it. Give it a decade or two and we will have electrical air travel. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19652363 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19652363
- 0xffff2 8y ago
  No, you absolutely will not. The article you linked is talking about 2/4 seat trainers. Electric simple does not scale to airliner sizes/speeds/distances. We're currently working towards hybrid-electric airliners that may offer some efficiency improvements, and even those are 3-4 decades from commercial operation. Fully electric requires a fundamental breakthrough in battery energy density.

thatfrenchguy 8y ago

> intercity travel in the 100-300mi range Paris-Marseille is 775km (481 miles), 3 hours by train, I don't think anyone actually takes airplanes to do this route if they don't have a connection afterwards.

martinald 8y ago

I'd say more than 300mi. Probably 500-600mi. Eg: Paris-> Montepellier, 3h30 by train. 1h20 by plane. By the time you add an hour for security/checkin at the airport, and the additional hassle of getting to/from the airport vs city centre rail terminals, it's competitive. I think only when you get over 4h then air starts to benefit.

Xylakant 8y ago
And even at 4 hours, things really depend: I just travelled about 650km from Berlin to Mannheim in about 5 hours. There’s no airport at the destination, so I’d have to fly to Frankfurt and continue from there. There’s a direct train every hour and considering time to the airport and check-in etc, taking the train is still faster. Air travel wins out on short/medium distances only if both ends of the leg are close to an airport.
- pintxo 8y ago
  There actually is a direct flight Berlin to Mannheim. Its just a tiny airport n Mannheim.