5 ms·

The article goes to great length to show that the supposed crimes (except for the one password, maybe) are things that journalists do. It's even more shady bec

The article goes to great length to show that the supposed crimes (except for the one password, maybe) are things that journalists do. It's even more shady because his co-conspirator, and the one who was charged with and convicted of the crimes that are unambiguously illegal, has been pardoned. edit: I don't really care about the difference between pardon an commuted sentence because they both are a get out of jail free card.

wapoamspomw 8y ago
>except for the one password If he did attempt to break the password hash, he conspired to hack military systems. I don't see why someone who attempted to break a password hash for access to classified documents shouldn't be prosecuted, journalist or not.
- ryanlol 8y ago
  Well, there are lots of jurisdictions in the world where it’s not a crime to conspire. Presumably there are quite a few reasonable people who disagree on the necessity of prosecuting “crimes” like this. Why’s your way the right way?
  - wapoamspomw 8y ago
    What countries allow their journalists to attempt to hack the country's military without consequence?
    - travisoneill1 8y ago
      Well this one apparently allows it's soldiers given the pardon of the co-conspirator. And, yes I think it should be severely punished in either case, but seeing both go free is a lot less scary than seeing unequal justice handed down because one was a thorn in the governments side.
      - belltaco 8y ago
        It wasn't a pardon, it was a commuting of sentence. Huge difference.
- chachachoney 8y ago
  The law doesn't necessarily agree, but that doesn't mean its analogous reasoning is just, or even technically correct. Here's a better lens: Assange attempted to solve a math problem. Solving a hash is not the same as breaking a physical lock, or attempting entry.
- megous 8y ago
  Don't mil guys have DoD cards or some such? Why would hacking a password help anything? You still need to have a card for you account, no?
  - SargeZT 8y ago
    At least back then SIPRNet had a password login for normal users. I've been out for nearly a decade, so I don't know if the situation has changed.
dragonwriter 8y ago
> The article goes to great length to show that the supposed crimes (except for the one password, maybe) are things that journalists do. He's only charged with one crime, not multiple, and the “one password” is an integral part of the one crime he is charged with. What “supposed crimes” beside that are you referring to?
- michael_j_ward 8y ago
  You're correct that he's charged with one crime. OP means "of the alleged acts that constitute the crime," all but the password one are things that journalists do routinely. Read the section "Manners and Means of the Conspiracy"[1] in the indictment. If you removed the second half of bullet 18 (the only part pertaining to the password), this could be used against almost any journalist. [1] https://www.lawfareblog.com/document-julian-assange-indictment https://www.lawfareblog.com/document-julian-assange-indictme...
  - dragonwriter 8y ago
    No, it couldn't. It is not a journalistic norm to collaborate in advance on the criminal acquisition of material by a leaker, and if a journalist does do that they are relying on political factors, not the law, to protect them from prosecution afterward. Yeah, it's normal for journalists to engage with sources and to acquire information from them, sometimes information that the sources have themselves obtained illegally. But it crosses a bright line for them to collaborate in the illegal acquisition. Now, you might argue that but for the agreement about the password, the “manner and means” section is largely descriptive of normal journalistic practice. But the manner and means, while necessary description and support, aren't the heart of a conspiracy charge. The “purpose and object” is, and the password is the key part of the manner and means supporting the distinction of the purpose and object from what occurs in normal journalistic practice. The password isn't a side issue; it's what distinguishes this from “I talked to a source and got copies of documents they stole from safe deposit boxes at the bank where they work” and “I was let into the bank by the source and tried to drill out the lock of a safe deposit box he lacked the key for”. The former is within the scope of journalism. The latter is not.
GVIrish 8y ago
Manning was not pardoned, she had her sentence commuted.
TecoAndJix 8y ago
Chelsea Manning's sentence was commuted but she was not pardoned - https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/17/us/politics/obama-commutes-bulk-of-chelsea-mannings-sentence.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/17/us/politics/obama-commute...
noelsusman 8y ago
That's a big exception, and his co-conspirator was not pardoned.

wapoamspomw 8y ago

>except for the one password If he did attempt to break the password hash, he conspired to hack military systems. I don't see why someone who attempted to break a password hash for access to classified documents shouldn't be prosecuted, journalist or not.

ryanlol 8y ago
Well, there are lots of jurisdictions in the world where it’s not a crime to conspire. Presumably there are quite a few reasonable people who disagree on the necessity of prosecuting “crimes” like this. Why’s your way the right way?
- wapoamspomw 8y ago
  What countries allow their journalists to attempt to hack the country's military without consequence?
  - travisoneill1 8y ago
    Well this one apparently allows it's soldiers given the pardon of the co-conspirator. And, yes I think it should be severely punished in either case, but seeing both go free is a lot less scary than seeing unequal justice handed down because one was a thorn in the governments side.
    - belltaco 8y ago
      It wasn't a pardon, it was a commuting of sentence. Huge difference.
chachachoney 8y ago
The law doesn't necessarily agree, but that doesn't mean its analogous reasoning is just, or even technically correct. Here's a better lens: Assange attempted to solve a math problem. Solving a hash is not the same as breaking a physical lock, or attempting entry.
megous 8y ago
Don't mil guys have DoD cards or some such? Why would hacking a password help anything? You still need to have a card for you account, no?
- SargeZT 8y ago
  At least back then SIPRNet had a password login for normal users. I've been out for nearly a decade, so I don't know if the situation has changed.

dragonwriter 8y ago

> The article goes to great length to show that the supposed crimes (except for the one password, maybe) are things that journalists do. He's only charged with one crime, not multiple, and the “one password” is an integral part of the one crime he is charged with. What “supposed crimes” beside that are you referring to?

michael_j_ward 8y ago
You're correct that he's charged with one crime. OP means "of the alleged acts that constitute the crime," all but the password one are things that journalists do routinely. Read the section "Manners and Means of the Conspiracy"[1] in the indictment. If you removed the second half of bullet 18 (the only part pertaining to the password), this could be used against almost any journalist. [1] https://www.lawfareblog.com/document-julian-assange-indictment https://www.lawfareblog.com/document-julian-assange-indictme...
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  No, it couldn't. It is not a journalistic norm to collaborate in advance on the criminal acquisition of material by a leaker, and if a journalist does do that they are relying on political factors, not the law, to protect them from prosecution afterward. Yeah, it's normal for journalists to engage with sources and to acquire information from them, sometimes information that the sources have themselves obtained illegally. But it crosses a bright line for them to collaborate in the illegal acquisition. Now, you might argue that but for the agreement about the password, the “manner and means” section is largely descriptive of normal journalistic practice. But the manner and means, while necessary description and support, aren't the heart of a conspiracy charge. The “purpose and object” is, and the password is the key part of the manner and means supporting the distinction of the purpose and object from what occurs in normal journalistic practice. The password isn't a side issue; it's what distinguishes this from “I talked to a source and got copies of documents they stole from safe deposit boxes at the bank where they work” and “I was let into the bank by the source and tried to drill out the lock of a safe deposit box he lacked the key for”. The former is within the scope of journalism. The latter is not.

GVIrish 8y ago

Manning was not pardoned, she had her sentence commuted.

TecoAndJix 8y ago

Chelsea Manning's sentence was commuted but she was not pardoned - https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/17/us/politics/obama-commutes-bulk-of-chelsea-mannings-sentence.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/17/us/politics/obama-commute...

noelsusman 8y ago

That's a big exception, and his co-conspirator was not pardoned.