4 ms·

Yeah, thanks for this comment. That's what makes this matter worse: they restrict private transport, but public transport just gets worse and more expensive eve

by kzcqt 7y ago

Yeah, thanks for this comment. That's what makes this matter worse: they restrict private transport, but public transport just gets worse and more expensive every year.

kingosticks 7y ago
This article talks about the improvements Madrid made to its public transport system. Are you guys talking about in general or specifically in Madrid?
dingallero 7y ago
In several places where I lived the public transport road service was subcontracted to the lowest-bidding private company of the region. This in turn creates this shitty illusion of "public" service that nobody wants to use, because: - it's unreliable (delays and strikes are common) - short working hours - poorly planned (or no) interconnections with other public services - abusive service costs to recoup the costs Even factoring all expenses of a car, several bus connections I was forced to take in the past where in the order of 5-6 times the total cost of car ownership. This doesn't even include the grave annoyances I listed above. Sad :(
- kzcqt 7y ago
  >In several places where I lived the public transport road service was subcontracted to the lowest-bidding private company of the region. They are required to do so by law.
  - wongarsu 7y ago
    I think the actual (EU) law is closer to "best suited". You have a number of offers to select from and have to say why you chose that offer. Saying "I chose them because they were the cheapest" is the easiest and safest solution so that's what usually happens, but it's not the only option.
    - anticensor 7y ago
      You have to pre-declare how you choose the best offer. Final procurement order is oftentimes made into existence after many rounds of rejection by procurement overseeing committee.
  - dingallero 7y ago
    And this is a problem. Lowest-bidder-wins always creates a race to the bottom. At least in the province of Venice, there was a complicated set of rules to pick between bidders of public contractors - so the law is certainly not universal in this regard. If I recall correctly, it was based on percentiles instead of taking just the lowest bidder in an attempt to avoid companies racing to the bottom. This in turn created a system where winning ad these bids was mostly by chance, and unsurprisingly was found to be rigged several times. But I digress...
  - isostatic 7y ago
    Not quite, but they have to justify the choice to use a service that costs more.
the8472 7y ago
The city where I work has slashed public transport prices, -40% for me, as part of a package to combat pollution exceeding EU regulations.
stfp 7y ago
I wonder what happens in places where private transport isn't restricted.
jaden 7y ago
At least for the Madrid metro, they have what I consider to be one of the most accessible and convenient public transportation systems I've used. And compared to Indianapolis, where I currently live, Madrid's public transport makes what we have here an embarrassment.
- thepangolino 7y ago
  Pretty much any European public transport is miles ahead of what most us cities have to offer.
- inferiorhuman 7y ago
  Madrid public transit is pretty comprehensive, but not particularly cheap or accessible. The rail is a bit archaic to use (single use tickets require source and destination stations despite being mostly one fare zone), station layout is fairly confusing at the bigger stations IMO. Perhaps most importantly, the stations are often pretty deep requiring a lot of waking -- not a problem if you're able bodied though. I didn't use the bus system at all so I can't comment there. Barcelona in comparison has fairly easy to navigate stations and a much friendlier fare system.
gordaco 7y ago
It should be mentioned here that in the case of Madrid, the metro is managed by a rightwing party who intentionally reduced the amount of trains when the car restrictions started, in order to cause discontent. See https://www.publico.es/politica/madrid-central-arranca-madrid-central-medio-polemica-reduccion-metros-capital.html https://www.publico.es/politica/madrid-central-arranca-madri... (sorry for the link in Spanish).
- javierga 7y ago
  I’ve tried going over the article and cannot find any mention to any right-wing party intentionally reducing the amount of trains. I should disclose that Spanish is my mother tongue. If anyone wants to pour over the article and explain it to me: EMT is the TfL of Madrid, Mayor's office is left-wing, Regional government is right-wing.
  - gordaco 7y ago
    Sorry, the article doesn't mention that the regional government is right-wing (my fault), but it does say this: "Sin embargo, en lugar de reforzar el servicio, como prometió hace un mes el presidente del Gobierno regional, Ángel Garrido, la frecuencia de los trenes se ha visto mermada".

by kzcqt 7y ago

Yeah, thanks for this comment. That's what makes this matter worse: they restrict private transport, but public transport just gets worse and more expensive every year.

kingosticks 7y ago

This article talks about the improvements Madrid made to its public transport system. Are you guys talking about in general or specifically in Madrid?

dingallero 7y ago

In several places where I lived the public transport road service was subcontracted to the lowest-bidding private company of the region. This in turn creates this shitty illusion of "public" service that nobody wants to use, because: - it's unreliable (delays and strikes are common) - short working hours - poorly planned (or no) interconnections with other public services - abusive service costs to recoup the costs Even factoring all expenses of a car, several bus connections I was forced to take in the past where in the order of 5-6 times the total cost of car ownership. This doesn't even include the grave annoyances I listed above. Sad :(

kzcqt 7y ago
>In several places where I lived the public transport road service was subcontracted to the lowest-bidding private company of the region. They are required to do so by law.
- wongarsu 7y ago
  I think the actual (EU) law is closer to "best suited". You have a number of offers to select from and have to say why you chose that offer. Saying "I chose them because they were the cheapest" is the easiest and safest solution so that's what usually happens, but it's not the only option.
  - anticensor 7y ago
    You have to pre-declare how you choose the best offer. Final procurement order is oftentimes made into existence after many rounds of rejection by procurement overseeing committee.
- dingallero 7y ago
  And this is a problem. Lowest-bidder-wins always creates a race to the bottom. At least in the province of Venice, there was a complicated set of rules to pick between bidders of public contractors - so the law is certainly not universal in this regard. If I recall correctly, it was based on percentiles instead of taking just the lowest bidder in an attempt to avoid companies racing to the bottom. This in turn created a system where winning ad these bids was mostly by chance, and unsurprisingly was found to be rigged several times. But I digress...
- isostatic 7y ago
  Not quite, but they have to justify the choice to use a service that costs more.

the8472 7y ago

The city where I work has slashed public transport prices, -40% for me, as part of a package to combat pollution exceeding EU regulations.

stfp 7y ago

I wonder what happens in places where private transport isn't restricted.

jaden 7y ago

At least for the Madrid metro, they have what I consider to be one of the most accessible and convenient public transportation systems I've used. And compared to Indianapolis, where I currently live, Madrid's public transport makes what we have here an embarrassment.

thepangolino 7y ago
Pretty much any European public transport is miles ahead of what most us cities have to offer.
inferiorhuman 7y ago
Madrid public transit is pretty comprehensive, but not particularly cheap or accessible. The rail is a bit archaic to use (single use tickets require source and destination stations despite being mostly one fare zone), station layout is fairly confusing at the bigger stations IMO. Perhaps most importantly, the stations are often pretty deep requiring a lot of waking -- not a problem if you're able bodied though. I didn't use the bus system at all so I can't comment there. Barcelona in comparison has fairly easy to navigate stations and a much friendlier fare system.

gordaco 7y ago

It should be mentioned here that in the case of Madrid, the metro is managed by a rightwing party who intentionally reduced the amount of trains when the car restrictions started, in order to cause discontent. See https://www.publico.es/politica/madrid-central-arranca-madrid-central-medio-polemica-reduccion-metros-capital.html https://www.publico.es/politica/madrid-central-arranca-madri... (sorry for the link in Spanish).

javierga 7y ago
I’ve tried going over the article and cannot find any mention to any right-wing party intentionally reducing the amount of trains. I should disclose that Spanish is my mother tongue. If anyone wants to pour over the article and explain it to me: EMT is the TfL of Madrid, Mayor's office is left-wing, Regional government is right-wing.
- gordaco 7y ago
  Sorry, the article doesn't mention that the regional government is right-wing (my fault), but it does say this: "Sin embargo, en lugar de reforzar el servicio, como prometió hace un mes el presidente del Gobierno regional, Ángel Garrido, la frecuencia de los trenes se ha visto mermada".