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The move makes sense, the price doesn't. Many modern light planes have a cost starting at $100,000 and it can be as low as $60,000 without the engine (based on

The move makes sense, the price doesn't. Many modern light planes have a cost starting at $100,000 and it can be as low as $60,000 without the engine (based on Rotax engine price and full price of the plane). The electric engines are by comparison much cheaper, I expect less than $5,000 and the batteries are ... well, Tesla tells how cheap, let's say $20,000 (that is 3 times a Tesla 3, which I seriously doubt). My math goes to ~ $85,000 for the base model, if you add full glass cockpit, leather chairs and even retractable landing gear you get to $120-150,000 price tag. I am not comparing with a 172 because most of the flying school is done in 2 seaters like the 152. It does not make a lot of sense to use a 4 seater for that.

peteradio 8y ago
Are there any competitors? If not price is not going to sit near the cost.
- AdrianB1 8y ago
  Pipistrel is has some electric models, but they were heavily pushed back by Siemens and I am not sure if they have a new source of light electric engines.
  - sah2ed 8y ago
    Links for the lazy: https://www.pipistrel-aircraft.com/aircraft/electric-flight/alpha-electro/ https://www.pipistrel-aircraft.com/aircraft/electric-flight/... https://www.pipistrel-aircraft.com/aircraft/electric-flight/taurus-electro/ https://www.pipistrel-aircraft.com/aircraft/electric-flight/...
t0mas88 8y ago
Unfortunately that's not how aircraft pricing works, due to very low economy's of scale. A 172 definitely doesn't have 400k in parts in it, yet that's what a fairly simple model costs new out of the factory today. The costs of certification, development and liability insurance are adding a lot to the price.
- AdrianB1 8y ago
  I know how it works as I am looking to buy my own 2 seater for some years, I fly rented. I am familiar with the US versus European manufacturer pricing differences and I just paid over $1,000 for a new radio a few months ago, the kind of radio that would be $50 if it would not be "aviation".
  - allannienhuis 8y ago
    Presumably there are some reasons for the higher cost, or someone else would come along and sell the radios for much less and take over the market. I expect in aviation higher reliability requirements would add something to the average costs for many things. People (me included) complain about the same thing when it comes to 'marine' parts - they're often 2 - 3 times higher in price than land-based parts (usually automotive or RV parts). There are actual differences in the items in many cases though - for example, marine engine parts have to ensure they never throw any spark, because explosive fumes in an enclosed engine compartment are a real safety concern that well ventilated automotive engines don't have. That takes extra R & D and different manufacturing processes for much smaller production runs (increasing pro-rated capital costs). Plus, market forces seem to show that people are willing to pay the higher prices - perhaps that's in part because most of the people buying these things have more money than people buying commodity (automotive etc) parts.
    - AdrianB1 8y ago
      Yes, there is a reason for the higher cost: price gauging. A pair of 7" displays with Android like software and GPS are ~ $10,000, if you want it in 12" you pay another $5,000. There is no competition in the market. This is why so many people use iPads and $100 software instead.
asynchronous13 8y ago
> Many modern light planes have a cost starting at $100,000 What planes are you referring to? I'm not familiar with models in that price range that are certified for commercial operations.
- AdrianB1 8y ago
  Certified for commercial operations is a very ambiguous term. You can do flying lessons on any plane that is registered and allowed to fly with some exceptions. Example: Pipistrel Alpha Trainer, base price was around 70,000 when they still had the price list on the site. 2 seater, low fuel consumption, high wing, very light and easy to fly, perfect for a trainer.

peteradio 8y ago

Are there any competitors? If not price is not going to sit near the cost.

AdrianB1 8y ago
Pipistrel is has some electric models, but they were heavily pushed back by Siemens and I am not sure if they have a new source of light electric engines.
- sah2ed 8y ago
  Links for the lazy: https://www.pipistrel-aircraft.com/aircraft/electric-flight/alpha-electro/ https://www.pipistrel-aircraft.com/aircraft/electric-flight/... https://www.pipistrel-aircraft.com/aircraft/electric-flight/taurus-electro/ https://www.pipistrel-aircraft.com/aircraft/electric-flight/...

t0mas88 8y ago

Unfortunately that's not how aircraft pricing works, due to very low economy's of scale. A 172 definitely doesn't have 400k in parts in it, yet that's what a fairly simple model costs new out of the factory today. The costs of certification, development and liability insurance are adding a lot to the price.

AdrianB1 8y ago
I know how it works as I am looking to buy my own 2 seater for some years, I fly rented. I am familiar with the US versus European manufacturer pricing differences and I just paid over $1,000 for a new radio a few months ago, the kind of radio that would be $50 if it would not be "aviation".
- allannienhuis 8y ago
  Presumably there are some reasons for the higher cost, or someone else would come along and sell the radios for much less and take over the market. I expect in aviation higher reliability requirements would add something to the average costs for many things. People (me included) complain about the same thing when it comes to 'marine' parts - they're often 2 - 3 times higher in price than land-based parts (usually automotive or RV parts). There are actual differences in the items in many cases though - for example, marine engine parts have to ensure they never throw any spark, because explosive fumes in an enclosed engine compartment are a real safety concern that well ventilated automotive engines don't have. That takes extra R & D and different manufacturing processes for much smaller production runs (increasing pro-rated capital costs). Plus, market forces seem to show that people are willing to pay the higher prices - perhaps that's in part because most of the people buying these things have more money than people buying commodity (automotive etc) parts.
  - AdrianB1 8y ago
    Yes, there is a reason for the higher cost: price gauging. A pair of 7" displays with Android like software and GPS are ~ $10,000, if you want it in 12" you pay another $5,000. There is no competition in the market. This is why so many people use iPads and $100 software instead.

asynchronous13 8y ago

> Many modern light planes have a cost starting at $100,000 What planes are you referring to? I'm not familiar with models in that price range that are certified for commercial operations.

AdrianB1 8y ago
Certified for commercial operations is a very ambiguous term. You can do flying lessons on any plane that is registered and allowed to fly with some exceptions. Example: Pipistrel Alpha Trainer, base price was around 70,000 when they still had the price list on the site. 2 seater, low fuel consumption, high wing, very light and easy to fly, perfect for a trainer.