4 ms·

> The hacker claimed to have “over a million data” [sic] ‘Data’ = plural of ‘datum’ according to the weird native-English tradition where people import entire

by aasasd 8y ago

> The hacker claimed to have “over a million data” [sic] ‘Data’ = plural of ‘datum’ according to the weird native-English tradition where people import entire grammar rules unchanged from other languages, long dead ones at that. So, the hackers used the word properly for the region, while Techcrunch was confused by this! Glorious mess.

toyg 8y ago
Long dead? Tsk, Latin is in ur courtrooms, making ur laws... de jure ac de facto.
- JetSpiegel 8y ago
  Alea jacta est
  - saganus 8y ago
    An Asterix and Obelix fan? :D
- reshie 8y ago
  not to mention scientific names for things. some named ages past but the tradition continues. i think i know what he/she means though
thomasfedb 8y ago
The problem in the usage is that most native speakers use 'data' not as a plural, but instead to identify the continuous stream that is comprised of datum, and therefore as an uncountable.
- aasasd 8y ago
  Of course they do, as they should. Still too often there are annoying shits around waiting to dump the “it's ‘these data’, not ‘this’.” Have I mentioned that using plural forms from a different language is arbitrary and stupid? All widely-used languages borrow words from others, but they bend the words to their grammar, not the other way around.
  - qlm 8y ago
    Treating "data" as plural very often seems like education flexing. There is no need to say "these data"/"this datum" in a normal conversation other than showing off the number of papers you have written or read.
  - asveikau 8y ago
    > annoying shits around waiting to dump the “it's ‘these data,’ not ‘this.’” Calm down. They're not hurting you. > All widely-used languages borrow words from others, but they bend the words to their grammar, not the other way around. I don't think that's true. For example I don't speak Maltese but I read that it has completely different grammar for Arabic and Latin derived words. Didn't English even used to have germanic-derived plurals (like "oxen") and Latinate ones (adding -s) coexisting until it took some time to mostly converge on the latter? English is a messy language to claim grammatical purity on, it is the product of some notable clashes of very distinct people.
  - grawprog 8y ago
    When I was in school they really hammered it in that data was plural. If you didn't write something like the data are or the data show that'd be a red circle on your report or paper. It was a common source of lost marks for the class. Presentations too. It was a big deal at least to our teachers. It always did and still does sound funny to me though. It also seems to be different in the computer science world compared to the the biology world. I see data used as a singular far more often in the context of computers than I do with other branches of science.
RHSeeger 8y ago
According to Merriam-Webster (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/data#usage-1 https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/data#usage-1), both are correct. > Data leads a life of its own quite independent of datum, of which it was originally the plural. It occurs in two constructions: as a plural noun (like earnings), taking a plural verb and plural modifiers (such as these, many, a few) but not cardinal numbers, and serving as a referent for plural pronouns (such as they, them); and as an abstract mass noun (like information), taking a singular verb and singular modifiers (such as this, much, little), and being referred to by a singular pronoun (it). Both constructions are standard. The plural construction is more common in print, evidently because the house style of several publishers mandates it.
killjoywashere 8y ago
I wasn't even thing about that. I was looking more at the larger pattern of speech here: "We hacked more than 1,000 sites,” said the hacker. “Now we are structuring all the data, and soon they will be sold. I think something else will publish from the list of hacked government sites.”

by aasasd 8y ago

toyg 8y ago

Long dead? Tsk, Latin is in ur courtrooms, making ur laws... de jure ac de facto.

JetSpiegel 8y ago
Alea jacta est
- saganus 8y ago
  An Asterix and Obelix fan? :D
reshie 8y ago
not to mention scientific names for things. some named ages past but the tradition continues. i think i know what he/she means though

thomasfedb 8y ago

The problem in the usage is that most native speakers use 'data' not as a plural, but instead to identify the continuous stream that is comprised of datum, and therefore as an uncountable.

aasasd 8y ago
Of course they do, as they should. Still too often there are annoying shits around waiting to dump the “it's ‘these data’, not ‘this’.” Have I mentioned that using plural forms from a different language is arbitrary and stupid? All widely-used languages borrow words from others, but they bend the words to their grammar, not the other way around.
- qlm 8y ago
  Treating "data" as plural very often seems like education flexing. There is no need to say "these data"/"this datum" in a normal conversation other than showing off the number of papers you have written or read.
- asveikau 8y ago
  > annoying shits around waiting to dump the “it's ‘these data,’ not ‘this.’” Calm down. They're not hurting you. > All widely-used languages borrow words from others, but they bend the words to their grammar, not the other way around. I don't think that's true. For example I don't speak Maltese but I read that it has completely different grammar for Arabic and Latin derived words. Didn't English even used to have germanic-derived plurals (like "oxen") and Latinate ones (adding -s) coexisting until it took some time to mostly converge on the latter? English is a messy language to claim grammatical purity on, it is the product of some notable clashes of very distinct people.
- grawprog 8y ago
  When I was in school they really hammered it in that data was plural. If you didn't write something like the data are or the data show that'd be a red circle on your report or paper. It was a common source of lost marks for the class. Presentations too. It was a big deal at least to our teachers. It always did and still does sound funny to me though. It also seems to be different in the computer science world compared to the the biology world. I see data used as a singular far more often in the context of computers than I do with other branches of science.

RHSeeger 8y ago

According to Merriam-Webster (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/data#usage-1 https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/data#usage-1), both are correct. > Data leads a life of its own quite independent of datum, of which it was originally the plural. It occurs in two constructions: as a plural noun (like earnings), taking a plural verb and plural modifiers (such as these, many, a few) but not cardinal numbers, and serving as a referent for plural pronouns (such as they, them); and as an abstract mass noun (like information), taking a singular verb and singular modifiers (such as this, much, little), and being referred to by a singular pronoun (it). Both constructions are standard. The plural construction is more common in print, evidently because the house style of several publishers mandates it.

killjoywashere 8y ago

I wasn't even thing about that. I was looking more at the larger pattern of speech here: "We hacked more than 1,000 sites,” said the hacker. “Now we are structuring all the data, and soon they will be sold. I think something else will publish from the list of hacked government sites.”