7 ms·

This doesn't echo public sentiment at all. Many are critical of the way implementation has happened, whether for or against (at least in Ontario, the most popul

by DKnoll 7y ago

This doesn't echo public sentiment at all. Many are critical of the way implementation has happened, whether for or against (at least in Ontario, the most populous province and the one I base everything that follows on). Those who are 'for' are upset about the supply issues that have occurred with the legal supply being limited (long delays), more expensive and often poor quality (moldy). Those who are indifferent are annoyed they have not offered any incentive to municipalities to allow stores (no share of taxes, no increase to enforcement budgets, no ability to control, limit or place restrictions on store locations) and made prices high making thus causing no reduction of the black market. Those who are 'against' think private businesses selling weed will increase sale to minors and just generally make a bunch of moral panic arguments.

spinach 7y ago
Yeah, my mind initially read the title as 'legal pot isn't going well for Canada', then I realized what it actually said and was confused. The physical storefronts in Ontario have been a mess, with some areas, like Ottawa getting 3 stores, with most of Ontario not having anything and a lot of people don't want to buy online. Though I don't really think it's a big deal at this point, it's new and going through lots of bumps now, but overtime will work itself out.
- DKnoll 7y ago
  I don't smoke anymore so I mostly rely on second-hand accounts. I'm of the same mind though, anything the government does has bumps, it's still progress.
eljimmy 7y ago
I don’t really have any complaints about how they implemented it here in Ontario. It’s far better than what the previous government had planned. Granted, I don’t smoke that often - but I’ve been to one of the stores and ordered from OCS online and have nothing negative to say. Maybe I just had low expectations?
- DKnoll 7y ago
  Public perception may start to change now that retail has opened up (of the 'pro' people at least) but I have heard a lot of complaints. Even OCS has acknowledged massive supply issues following the rollout (https://www.marketwatch.com/story/canada-is-running-out-of-legal-weed-in-some-areas-2018-10-26 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/canada-is-running-out-of-l...). Where those who oppose or are on the fence form a majority (or at least a vocal one) municipalities have banned stores for now. I expect once the province smartens up and gives municipalities the ability to control proximity to schools, parks, churches and other places the law expects children to congregate (or gives up some of that sweet tax money) the people who are on the fence will lighten up. The Chinese community in the GTA is a great advocate, and cause, of municipalities banning stores. They form a large and vocal bloc and for whatever reason seem to view cannabis as a hard drug and oppose any form of decriminalisation or legalisation.
- bryanlarsen 7y ago
  "It’s far better than what the previous government had planned." I disagree. Sure, a free market is better than a government monopoly, but marijuana isn't anywhere close to a free market. It's highly regulated and highly constrained. Only 25 stores were allowed to open province wide in one of the biggest giveaways to the private sector ever. Those licenses are probably worth hundreds of millions of dollars each and Ford just gave them away to lucky lottery winners. And of course he's going to protect them -- no city is going to allow the Mac's milk shop on every corner to start selling pot so those lottery winners are just going to print money for themselves, and lobby for their own interests, not ours. Better a government monopoly with profits going to the taxpayer than a private sector oligopoly.
rocky1138 7y ago
I suspect this is some form of reverse survivor bias: the people who are happy with the service (like me) are not out on the streets cheering. It's fantastic, it's just not something that we talk about due to the stigma. I smoked exceedingly rarely before legalization (3 times in my entire life) and now I smoke often. I'm happy to pay the paltry prices for the amount of enjoyment I get from it, and I know that the weed I get is safe for me to consume. It also arrives in a day or two after ordering. Most times I'm surprised it came so quick! I'm in Ontario.
- DKnoll 7y ago
  > I smoked exceedingly rarely before legalization (3 times in my entire life) and now I smoke often. You are the boogeyman to the people who oppose legalisation. One of the rare people who didn't smoke simply to obey the law and are now getting stoned because it's legal. :P I think the people who rarely smoked are the most happy, because they are not worried about a minor price increase but also appreciate the convenience and legal acceptance. I am personally happy with legalisation and, as someone who no longer smokes but realises the relative lack of harm from consuming cannabis (especially as compared to alcohol), think it is the morally right thing to do. Despite my own beliefs, public opposition to the rollout is still significant and definitely worth mentioning especially in a Reuters article that will be propagated everywhere.
  - DanBC 7y ago
    > One of the rare people We have no idea of the prevalance of this kind of person. There's no research. (I am in favour of legalisation.)
    - DKnoll 7y ago
      It's honestly hard to believe there were people who didn't smoke simply because it was illegal, even though getting charged for personal amounts of cannabis in the GTA was about as common as being struck by lightning. That said I applaud them. That's a very respectable level of restraint and community-mindedness (I swear that's a word).
slavik81 7y ago
The Ontario provincial government is a walking disaster, and their implementation of marijuana legalization is just a reflection of that. The rollout went smoothly in other provinces.
- DKnoll 7y ago
  Despite my general negative feelings toward the Ford government, their privatisation of stores was the right move. Unfortunately, it came far too late (the previous Wynne government opted for government-run stores, both retail and online, before the Ford government was elected four months prior to legalisation) and ended up giving everyone too little time to handle it gracefully. I have heard that the roll-out went very well in Alberta, although they also have a very lax approach to alcohol sales unlike Ontario.
throwaway2048 7y ago
There is a concerted campaign going on online right now to paint legal weed as a massive failure, so the current Canadian government cant count it as an achievement. Hasn't been perfect of course, but its far from the disaster certain groups are trying to paint it as.
- DKnoll 7y ago
  There are many groups who don't just try to paint it as a failure, they strongly believe it is one. No disinformation campaign needed, they just speak their firmly held beliefs and real perceptions. Most of the actual failures fall on the provincial governments in my view. I think cannabis legalisation will probably be one of the few positive achievements history sees from the Trudeau administration although I hope I'm wrong.
forkLding 7y ago
I would argue its too early to tell that things are going bad, the Cannabis Act was put in place on October 17th which is only 6 months ago. Moreover, most retail stores in Ontario were given very short notice (~2-4 months) to build the stores and open up on April 1st couple weeks ago. I would say in a year or two, we would have likely forgotten about all this and will be having normal and regular deliveries via Canada Post like any other product. https://www.thestar.com/news/cannabis/2019/03/18/will-ontario-cannabis-shops-be-ready-for-april-1-for-some-owners-its-touch-and-go.html https://www.thestar.com/news/cannabis/2019/03/18/will-ontari...
- giarc 7y ago
  I'd say it's way too early for Ontario reactions seeing as how no stores (or enough to count on one hand) are open.
ape4 7y ago
There are complains but its generally going fine. Supply issues will be worked out.
ip26 7y ago
FWIW that pretty much described Colorado at first. The supply needed time to come online & stabilize, and then the pros were happy, prices came down, and the against group saw minors didn't really have more access and stopped complaining. I want to say it took about 18 months.
jgmjgm 7y ago
I think the supply bottle-neck is the reason. All the pot has to come from a few hand-picked suppliers. Also there are claimed Liberal ties to pot production. Some quick links (although I suggest taking this with a grain of salt given the source): https://potfacts.ca/the-liberal-party-elite-is-heavily-invested-in-the-medical-marijuana-licensed-producers-mail-order-business/ https://potfacts.ca/the-liberal-party-elite-is-heavily-inves... https://ottawasun.com/2015/10/28/liberal-cfo-could-rake-in-marijuana-money-with-legalization/wcm/7f3593dc-eca5-4def-8a19-f8fd5a2e1a78 https://ottawasun.com/2015/10/28/liberal-cfo-could-rake-in-m... I haven't heard any moral outrage arguments in the press or otherwise. Remember that this isn't only a youth issue or it wouldn't be used in a federal campaign promise. It is, by definition, widely supported. Recall that people well into their 60s and 70s came of age smoking pot. IMHO there's much more moral outrage associated with the Conservative plan to reduce drinking restrictions. Ontario remains a pretty uptight place.
Waterluvian 7y ago
Absolutely every public offering has these same groups of critics. It's simply not a useful signal for whether things are going well or not.

by DKnoll 7y ago

spinach 7y ago

Yeah, my mind initially read the title as 'legal pot isn't going well for Canada', then I realized what it actually said and was confused. The physical storefronts in Ontario have been a mess, with some areas, like Ottawa getting 3 stores, with most of Ontario not having anything and a lot of people don't want to buy online. Though I don't really think it's a big deal at this point, it's new and going through lots of bumps now, but overtime will work itself out.

DKnoll 7y ago
I don't smoke anymore so I mostly rely on second-hand accounts. I'm of the same mind though, anything the government does has bumps, it's still progress.

eljimmy 7y ago

I don’t really have any complaints about how they implemented it here in Ontario. It’s far better than what the previous government had planned. Granted, I don’t smoke that often - but I’ve been to one of the stores and ordered from OCS online and have nothing negative to say. Maybe I just had low expectations?

DKnoll 7y ago
Public perception may start to change now that retail has opened up (of the 'pro' people at least) but I have heard a lot of complaints. Even OCS has acknowledged massive supply issues following the rollout (https://www.marketwatch.com/story/canada-is-running-out-of-legal-weed-in-some-areas-2018-10-26 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/canada-is-running-out-of-l...). Where those who oppose or are on the fence form a majority (or at least a vocal one) municipalities have banned stores for now. I expect once the province smartens up and gives municipalities the ability to control proximity to schools, parks, churches and other places the law expects children to congregate (or gives up some of that sweet tax money) the people who are on the fence will lighten up. The Chinese community in the GTA is a great advocate, and cause, of municipalities banning stores. They form a large and vocal bloc and for whatever reason seem to view cannabis as a hard drug and oppose any form of decriminalisation or legalisation.
bryanlarsen 7y ago
"It’s far better than what the previous government had planned." I disagree. Sure, a free market is better than a government monopoly, but marijuana isn't anywhere close to a free market. It's highly regulated and highly constrained. Only 25 stores were allowed to open province wide in one of the biggest giveaways to the private sector ever. Those licenses are probably worth hundreds of millions of dollars each and Ford just gave them away to lucky lottery winners. And of course he's going to protect them -- no city is going to allow the Mac's milk shop on every corner to start selling pot so those lottery winners are just going to print money for themselves, and lobby for their own interests, not ours. Better a government monopoly with profits going to the taxpayer than a private sector oligopoly.

rocky1138 7y ago

I suspect this is some form of reverse survivor bias: the people who are happy with the service (like me) are not out on the streets cheering. It's fantastic, it's just not something that we talk about due to the stigma. I smoked exceedingly rarely before legalization (3 times in my entire life) and now I smoke often. I'm happy to pay the paltry prices for the amount of enjoyment I get from it, and I know that the weed I get is safe for me to consume. It also arrives in a day or two after ordering. Most times I'm surprised it came so quick! I'm in Ontario.

DKnoll 7y ago
> I smoked exceedingly rarely before legalization (3 times in my entire life) and now I smoke often. You are the boogeyman to the people who oppose legalisation. One of the rare people who didn't smoke simply to obey the law and are now getting stoned because it's legal. :P I think the people who rarely smoked are the most happy, because they are not worried about a minor price increase but also appreciate the convenience and legal acceptance. I am personally happy with legalisation and, as someone who no longer smokes but realises the relative lack of harm from consuming cannabis (especially as compared to alcohol), think it is the morally right thing to do. Despite my own beliefs, public opposition to the rollout is still significant and definitely worth mentioning especially in a Reuters article that will be propagated everywhere.
- DanBC 7y ago
  > One of the rare people We have no idea of the prevalance of this kind of person. There's no research. (I am in favour of legalisation.)
  - DKnoll 7y ago
    It's honestly hard to believe there were people who didn't smoke simply because it was illegal, even though getting charged for personal amounts of cannabis in the GTA was about as common as being struck by lightning. That said I applaud them. That's a very respectable level of restraint and community-mindedness (I swear that's a word).

slavik81 7y ago

The Ontario provincial government is a walking disaster, and their implementation of marijuana legalization is just a reflection of that. The rollout went smoothly in other provinces.

DKnoll 7y ago
Despite my general negative feelings toward the Ford government, their privatisation of stores was the right move. Unfortunately, it came far too late (the previous Wynne government opted for government-run stores, both retail and online, before the Ford government was elected four months prior to legalisation) and ended up giving everyone too little time to handle it gracefully. I have heard that the roll-out went very well in Alberta, although they also have a very lax approach to alcohol sales unlike Ontario.

throwaway2048 7y ago

There is a concerted campaign going on online right now to paint legal weed as a massive failure, so the current Canadian government cant count it as an achievement. Hasn't been perfect of course, but its far from the disaster certain groups are trying to paint it as.

DKnoll 7y ago
There are many groups who don't just try to paint it as a failure, they strongly believe it is one. No disinformation campaign needed, they just speak their firmly held beliefs and real perceptions. Most of the actual failures fall on the provincial governments in my view. I think cannabis legalisation will probably be one of the few positive achievements history sees from the Trudeau administration although I hope I'm wrong.

forkLding 7y ago

I would argue its too early to tell that things are going bad, the Cannabis Act was put in place on October 17th which is only 6 months ago. Moreover, most retail stores in Ontario were given very short notice (~2-4 months) to build the stores and open up on April 1st couple weeks ago. I would say in a year or two, we would have likely forgotten about all this and will be having normal and regular deliveries via Canada Post like any other product. https://www.thestar.com/news/cannabis/2019/03/18/will-ontario-cannabis-shops-be-ready-for-april-1-for-some-owners-its-touch-and-go.html https://www.thestar.com/news/cannabis/2019/03/18/will-ontari...

giarc 7y ago
I'd say it's way too early for Ontario reactions seeing as how no stores (or enough to count on one hand) are open.

ape4 7y ago

There are complains but its generally going fine. Supply issues will be worked out.

ip26 7y ago

FWIW that pretty much described Colorado at first. The supply needed time to come online & stabilize, and then the pros were happy, prices came down, and the against group saw minors didn't really have more access and stopped complaining. I want to say it took about 18 months.

jgmjgm 7y ago

I think the supply bottle-neck is the reason. All the pot has to come from a few hand-picked suppliers. Also there are claimed Liberal ties to pot production. Some quick links (although I suggest taking this with a grain of salt given the source): https://potfacts.ca/the-liberal-party-elite-is-heavily-invested-in-the-medical-marijuana-licensed-producers-mail-order-business/ https://potfacts.ca/the-liberal-party-elite-is-heavily-inves... https://ottawasun.com/2015/10/28/liberal-cfo-could-rake-in-marijuana-money-with-legalization/wcm/7f3593dc-eca5-4def-8a19-f8fd5a2e1a78 https://ottawasun.com/2015/10/28/liberal-cfo-could-rake-in-m... I haven't heard any moral outrage arguments in the press or otherwise. Remember that this isn't only a youth issue or it wouldn't be used in a federal campaign promise. It is, by definition, widely supported. Recall that people well into their 60s and 70s came of age smoking pot. IMHO there's much more moral outrage associated with the Conservative plan to reduce drinking restrictions. Ontario remains a pretty uptight place.

Waterluvian 7y ago

Absolutely every public offering has these same groups of critics. It's simply not a useful signal for whether things are going well or not.