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> unfair business practices originating from China are costing the American economy more than $57 billion a year, White House officials believe And yet the com
by _cs2017_ 7y ago
> unfair business practices originating from China are costing the American economy more than $57 billion a year, White House officials believe
And yet the companies who supposedly lose that money don't care.
It reminds me a little of the $200-250B "lost" to piracy by the movie and music industry (http://freakonomics.com/2012/01/12/how-much-do-music-and-movie-piracy-really-hurt-the-u-s-economy/ http://freakonomics.com/2012/01/12/how-much-do-music-and-mov...). To be more precise it reminds me of how everyone likes to create large impressive numbers that prove their point or support their agenda.
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- _cs2017_ 7y agoHere's the similarity. I do think US companies suffer from hacking, just like the music and video industry suffer losses from piracy. I think, however, that the numbers reported are exaggerated beyond belief. Piracy losses are exaggerated because if you take away free music and movies, most pirates will not pay anyway anywhere close to the amounts they are said to "steal" from the copyright owners. Hacking losses are exaggerated because the supposed trade secrets are often just a PR gimmick. I've seen all too often how corporate lawyers and executives claim their special unique tech is worth billions, when in fact it's worth very little if anything. As to whether US companies can do something: sure they can; the whole point of the article is that they care a lot less than one would expect.
- nicodjimenez 7y agoHey my bad for obnoxious comments on my part, it's true that people overvalue IP sometimes in the West. Part of the reason for the reason for China's entrepreneurial success is the fact people borrow ideas from others to move faster.
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- nitrogen 7y agoIf you're having a bad day, other commenters on HN are not the best place to take out your frustrations. Let's all be nice to each other here.
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- westiseast 7y agoI suspect the amount is a mix of things: * Investment in IP that then gets stolen. * Loss of potential earnings as American companies are locked out of Chinese markets * Loss of actual earnings as American/global consumers switch to Chinese companies (eg huawei) that are accused of unfair business practices or receiving unfair government subsidies. Some companies “don’t care” because they aren’t actually losing money, they’re just not making as much as they could be. But other companies are ‘coerced’ into not caring because what happens if they complain? They lose Chinese government contracts. They effectively admit to shareholders that their IP has been stolen and lost. They waste time and resources fighting unwinnable legal battles against Chinese national champions (ie. the Chinese state). I’ve met plenty of small/medium sized business owners who are so sickened by their experiences with China and the Chinese market that they’re happy to just ignore it all and save themselves the heartache.
- _cs2017_ 7y agoIf you count being locked out of the Chinese markets, I think the number is actually much, much larger than $50B. But that seems to be rather unrelated to hacking? In fact most countries openly or secretly try to lock out foreign owned businesses. If the point is that China does it more than others, perhaps it's true, but it's a lot more complex issue than outright hacking.
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- westiseast 7y agoI think the hacking and being cut out of domestic markets is fairly closely linked. If you’ve already stolen the IP, you don’t need to let the foreign business in to provide that service. Possibly even more widespread though has been the standard practice over the last 20 years of lettin foreign businesses setup shop in China, hacking/stealing all their tech, then the state uses its legal/political resources to make life horrendously difficult for the original foreign business.
- sgt101 7y agoThe big deal for me is that the content creators aren't getting paid, the anti industry narrative of ip should be free campaigners ignores this.