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For dynamic data, you need to use a CRDT system like GUN ( https://github.com/amark/gun https://github.com/amark/gun ). For instance, see P2P Reddit ( http://n

For dynamic data, you need to use a CRDT system like GUN ( https://github.com/amark/gun https://github.com/amark/gun ). For instance, see P2P Reddit ( http://notabug.io http://notabug.io ) which: - Running in production with GUN. - Handling about 42,000 monthly visitors. ( https://www.similarweb.com/website/notabug.io https://www.similarweb.com/website/notabug.io ) - Has done ~1TB in 1 day of decentralized traffic. You can then configure GUN to save to IPFS as the blob/storage engine (or we have filesystem, localStorage, IndexedDB, S3, etc. as options). It is basically like having a P2P Firebase :) with IPFS plugin.

fwip 8y ago
It's a shame that so many P2P advocates - or at least the ones using the stuff built with P2P tech - are very loud alt-right types. I popped on notabug.io just now, and the chat is full of swastikas, racial slurs, and the most up-voted posts are primarily anti-gay misinformation. I see you wrote GUN, which I'm sure was no small feat, and it looks like an impressive piece of technology. How do you feel about your tech being primarily used in this way?
- fiatjaf 8y ago
  I just clicked on notabug and didn't see any swastikas or racial slurs. Are you lying?
  - fwip 8y ago
    You think somebody would do that? Just go on the internet and tell lies? Warning: image contains racial slurs and swastikas: https://i.imgur.com/0kdxzVR.png https://i.imgur.com/0kdxzVR.png A little later in the chat, the developer chimes in and talks about some stuff. Then some people angrily accost them for censoring things. If the Nazis and the racists aren't censored, I don't want to think about the odious content that is. Edit: Here's a thread from... yesterday, where a bunch of users are mad about the "censorship" of the developer hiding a swastika post from the front-page (not even deleting it or removing it from whatever their equivalent of a sub-reddit is): https://notabug.io/t/whatever/comments/509b9189ece85515671d3074e71a40da8955cd03/go1dfish-censors-posts-based-off-political-content https://notabug.io/t/whatever/comments/509b9189ece85515671d3...
    - fiatjaf 8y ago
      Well, to me these seem like some adolescents trying to be funny and go against the mainstream. They post swastikas and call racial slurs because they know they shouldn't be doing that. They aren't really nazis, right? They don't even know what a nazi is. You can call this "decentralized reddit" a bad place, as it really is, but you can't say it's because it's "full of right-wing people". These adolescents are not "right-wing people".
      - viraptor 8y ago
        > They aren't really nazis, right? At some point... is there a difference? If you find yourself in a group "ironically" screaming you all support X for long enough, soon you'll find that some of you actually support X. And that you enabled those people.
        heyitsguay 8y ago
        Well and besides, the actual content on the site seems to skew alt-right pretty heavily, whether the racial slurs and swastikas are ironic or not. Taken altogether, it paints a pretty clear picture of a voat-style forum that will alienate most other people if it stays that way.
        mirimir 8y ago
        They're there because they've been excluded from mainstream sites. It may seem extreme, but one way to assess how uncensorable something is by its content of stuff that you hate. Even stuff like child porn that any sane person would hate. So you just ignore it.
      - mirimir 8y ago
        I get what you say. But it's arguable that most of those actual WWII Nazis didn't really know much about anything. I mean, watch Riefenstahl's "Triumph of the Will". There's stuff in there that reminds me a lot of Young Pioneer camps (not surprising, I know) and Woodstock (except for the lack of drugs). My point is that they were just belonging to something that seemed cool.
  - heyitsguay 8y ago
    The sexual misinformation is on the front page. The racial slurs and swastikas are in the chat. Great look for a site. I wonder what's changed for early adopters of new tech compared with the original internet in the early 90's? Early adoption was still demographically skewed towards certain groups, but i don't recall this brand of right-wing thought being so prominent.
- int_19h 8y ago
  This is true of pretty much any tech that is anti-censorship in some way or another (anonymizing and/or decentralized). But it's hardly surprising: "The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all." In this case, it means that you'll see people who are predominantly censored from other places already use this tech to avoid further censorship. In US right now, at least, that tends to be alt-right, white nationalists etc. For a more detailed take: https://slatestarcodex.com/2015/07/22/freedom-on-the-centralized-web/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2015/07/22/freedom-on-the-central...
- marknadal 8y ago
  :( few months ago NAB didn't have this problem. :( The guy actually built a P2P moderation tool (anyone has their own "glasses" that filters based on your policy). notabug.io is suppose to be running a curated homepage (nab.cx not curated) but I think he said it broke a week ago when he was modularizing his code. NAB usually isn't this bad, lot of the people on it are anti-altright, but altrighters certainly can drown them out. But it does look like NAB has become more toxic over time. :( Previously, I was pretty neutral "do what you want with it". Now, I shifted to be more opinionated about what I want to see built on top. Primarily, apps that spread Open Source economics through art (music, etc.), to draw a crowd of lovers/creators not haters/destroyers.
  - fwip 8y ago
    Thanks for your response. I hope NAB gets better again.
mirimir 8y ago
Hey, very cool! Somehow I forgot about it. As you say: > I think all censorship should be deplored. My position is that bits are not a bug. > — Aaron Swartz (1986 - 2013) Edit: But I like https://nab.cx/ https://nab.cx/ better. Or at least, as an alternative.

fwip 8y ago

It's a shame that so many P2P advocates - or at least the ones using the stuff built with P2P tech - are very loud alt-right types. I popped on notabug.io just now, and the chat is full of swastikas, racial slurs, and the most up-voted posts are primarily anti-gay misinformation. I see you wrote GUN, which I'm sure was no small feat, and it looks like an impressive piece of technology. How do you feel about your tech being primarily used in this way?

fiatjaf 8y ago
I just clicked on notabug and didn't see any swastikas or racial slurs. Are you lying?
- fwip 8y ago
  You think somebody would do that? Just go on the internet and tell lies? Warning: image contains racial slurs and swastikas: https://i.imgur.com/0kdxzVR.png https://i.imgur.com/0kdxzVR.png A little later in the chat, the developer chimes in and talks about some stuff. Then some people angrily accost them for censoring things. If the Nazis and the racists aren't censored, I don't want to think about the odious content that is. Edit: Here's a thread from... yesterday, where a bunch of users are mad about the "censorship" of the developer hiding a swastika post from the front-page (not even deleting it or removing it from whatever their equivalent of a sub-reddit is): https://notabug.io/t/whatever/comments/509b9189ece85515671d3074e71a40da8955cd03/go1dfish-censors-posts-based-off-political-content https://notabug.io/t/whatever/comments/509b9189ece85515671d3...
  - fiatjaf 8y ago
    Well, to me these seem like some adolescents trying to be funny and go against the mainstream. They post swastikas and call racial slurs because they know they shouldn't be doing that. They aren't really nazis, right? They don't even know what a nazi is. You can call this "decentralized reddit" a bad place, as it really is, but you can't say it's because it's "full of right-wing people". These adolescents are not "right-wing people".
    - viraptor 8y ago
      > They aren't really nazis, right? At some point... is there a difference? If you find yourself in a group "ironically" screaming you all support X for long enough, soon you'll find that some of you actually support X. And that you enabled those people.
      - heyitsguay 8y ago
        Well and besides, the actual content on the site seems to skew alt-right pretty heavily, whether the racial slurs and swastikas are ironic or not. Taken altogether, it paints a pretty clear picture of a voat-style forum that will alienate most other people if it stays that way.
        mirimir 8y ago
        They're there because they've been excluded from mainstream sites. It may seem extreme, but one way to assess how uncensorable something is by its content of stuff that you hate. Even stuff like child porn that any sane person would hate. So you just ignore it.
    - mirimir 8y ago
      I get what you say. But it's arguable that most of those actual WWII Nazis didn't really know much about anything. I mean, watch Riefenstahl's "Triumph of the Will". There's stuff in there that reminds me a lot of Young Pioneer camps (not surprising, I know) and Woodstock (except for the lack of drugs). My point is that they were just belonging to something that seemed cool.
- heyitsguay 8y ago
  The sexual misinformation is on the front page. The racial slurs and swastikas are in the chat. Great look for a site. I wonder what's changed for early adopters of new tech compared with the original internet in the early 90's? Early adoption was still demographically skewed towards certain groups, but i don't recall this brand of right-wing thought being so prominent.
int_19h 8y ago
This is true of pretty much any tech that is anti-censorship in some way or another (anonymizing and/or decentralized). But it's hardly surprising: "The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all." In this case, it means that you'll see people who are predominantly censored from other places already use this tech to avoid further censorship. In US right now, at least, that tends to be alt-right, white nationalists etc. For a more detailed take: https://slatestarcodex.com/2015/07/22/freedom-on-the-centralized-web/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2015/07/22/freedom-on-the-central...
marknadal 8y ago
:( few months ago NAB didn't have this problem. :( The guy actually built a P2P moderation tool (anyone has their own "glasses" that filters based on your policy). notabug.io is suppose to be running a curated homepage (nab.cx not curated) but I think he said it broke a week ago when he was modularizing his code. NAB usually isn't this bad, lot of the people on it are anti-altright, but altrighters certainly can drown them out. But it does look like NAB has become more toxic over time. :( Previously, I was pretty neutral "do what you want with it". Now, I shifted to be more opinionated about what I want to see built on top. Primarily, apps that spread Open Source economics through art (music, etc.), to draw a crowd of lovers/creators not haters/destroyers.
- fwip 8y ago
  Thanks for your response. I hope NAB gets better again.

mirimir 8y ago

Hey, very cool! Somehow I forgot about it. As you say: > I think all censorship should be deplored. My position is that bits are not a bug. > — Aaron Swartz (1986 - 2013) Edit: But I like https://nab.cx/ https://nab.cx/ better. Or at least, as an alternative.