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As a resident of San Francisco, I would love to see more housing built here. The fact that there are so many low rise buildings in San Francisco is ridiculous.
by clay_the_ripper 8y ago
As a resident of San Francisco, I would love to see more housing built here. The fact that there are so many low rise buildings in San Francisco is ridiculous. It’s a city for gods sake! Build the hell out of it.
Counter point 1: “the buildings will be ugly and we’ll lose our community”. I disagree. Plenty of cities have common sense laws about how buildings should look. Your community is changing whether you like it or not. I don’t see how tall building erase community. They may change it, sure. But change is inevitable.
Counter point 2: “the increase in traffic will be terrible.” So run bart 24 hours, add more stops, extend the likes and run a train every 5 minutes. upgrade muni with all the extra tax base. Introduce congestion charges.
Counter point 3: “all the housing will go to rich people”. Maybe true, maybe not. But by the basic law of supply and demand, more supply means prices go down. If you build a bunch of luxury appartments, then that willl vacate some supply of slightly less expensive housing, and a trickle effect all the way down. Plus you can mandate controls on what types of units get built. The fact is that rich people like to live in cities, and if you can’t afford to live here then move.
Basically, it’s all possible but because of short sighted stupid policies and whining about “community” it won’t happen.
- aeternus 8y agoFor homeowners and landlords in SF, voting for more housing is counter to their rational self-interest. It drives down their home prices in many ways: simple supply + demand, obstructed views, increased traffic, school overcrowding. Until we align incentives, why would homeowners or prospective homeowners vote for increased housing?
- joejerryronnie 8y agoYou’re right about incentives. How about offering homeowners something for their trouble - e.g. if a neighborhood votes to rezone for higher density, all existing homeowners get a yearly rebate to offset some portion of their property tax. I guarantee most people value cash in their pocket now more than some nebulous property value at an undisclosed time in the future.
- blackflame7000 8y agoI’m all for incentives but you also don’t want to further eviscerate the middle class by slowly turning them from owners of houses to renters in skyrises.
- daniel-cussen 8y agoThey can by all means be owners in skyrises.
- blackflame7000 8y agoA skyrise is vastly more expensive both to construct and because of the demand to be at the top.
- aeternus 8y agoWhy does it matter if the top is expensive? There can be 60+ floors all at different price points as well as a commercial space on the ground floor.
- blackflame7000 8y agoAre you willfully ignoring just how expensive high rises are to make your point? You can easily pay several million dollars for a coffin on the 3rd floor in new york. I don't want to live in a world like that.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- clay_the_ripper 8y agoI’m curious how other cities handle this. It seems like homeowners have far too much power in this situation, and are able to vote in their own self interest to the detriment of everyone else. I guess it’s a politics problem more than anything. How do we take away their influence? Genuinely curious if anyone knows more about this and how this might be done.
- sgc 8y agoOwners actually have fewer rights than average, in the sense that it is residents who vote, and many owners can't even vote in SF. Also, you still only have one vote even if you own 100 units. Yes, owners lobby, but in my opinion residents in general resist change because it will often erase elements they want to see preserved due to the city's historical character. There is no right or wrong in that debate since it is a personal taste/priorities issue. And further crowding affects everyone. Very few will vote for it, as time has shown.
- blackflame7000 8y agoBasically its going to require an earthquake before land becomes available
- pascalxus 8y agoYou should ask the red states and red cities. Generally speaking, they don't have these egregious nimbys. Houston even with 2 MIL population, and fast growing, still keeps housing prices low, even after a hurricane!!!
- waffleguy 8y agoThey bought their home in a city. No one in a city should expect the community/buildings to stagnate. That is counterintuitive to how a city operates.
- tehlike 8y agoActually this may not be true. The home owners own the land thr homes are on, so by that definition, if you can build lots of housing on the same surface area, the land would appreciate
- aeternus 8y ago>if you can build lots of housing on the same surface area, the land would appreciate Optimally, however due to our property tax system, owners are taxed on any improvements which increases investment risk and provides a strong disincentive. Furthermore the city makes it difficult to build higher and often requires concessions like low-income units along with higher-density improvements.