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The charitable interpretation (for your OB friend) is that she was not speaking literally, and got bored when you started perseverating on her hyperbole. The mo

The charitable interpretation (for your OB friend) is that she was not speaking literally, and got bored when you started perseverating on her hyperbole. The more likely explanation is that your analysis is indeed correct.

mbreese 16y ago
I'd say the more likely case is that she wasn't speaking literally. Doctors are usually trying to explain things to people who aren't going to know what modal means. Couple that with the fact that most doctors know just enough statistics to get by, and "the most common time for a baby to be born is 3am" gets translated to "the average baby is born at 3am". The bored look was probably just her rolling her eyes.
- roel_v 16y ago
  "Doctors are usually trying to explain things to people who aren't going to know what modal means." I talk to doctors quite often lately, with a daughter on the way and all, and the first few times I felt a bit miffed at what I took for her talking down to us. When it got to an absurd level with some nurses (who explained things like how to add several numbers by lining them up, putting a line underneath with a plus sign next to it, and then using a calculator to find the result (true story)), I thought about it some more and it must be because they need to target the lowest common denominator. Which I guess is someone with an iq of 85 or so, as people lower would get special counseling I think. I've tried to find effective methods to communicate to people that they can skip some of the 'duh' parts, but that's not easy. Just saying 'listen I'm no dumb' or even worse, 'hi I'm <name> and I'm a <name profession that requires university degree>' makes you look arrogant and will antagonize people, and they might not dumb it down on purpose anyway, so they might not have a way of not dumbing it down, either. Usually after a few talks people pick up the vibe on how fast you understand things and what you already know, but when you have many different contacts with various people it often not even comes to that point. Anyway sorry for the OT ;)
  - ZeroGravitas 16y ago
    My wife just had the same experience and I likened it to me phoning a tech support line. Although it's frustrating they're not insulting your intelligence, they're probably just as sad as you are that they have to break it down to that level for most people. And, as someone with minor experience on the other side of tech support, you can't really afford to believe someone when they say they know what they're doing, they're quite possibly lying. A great tip my colleague mentioned from his days on tech support: "Never ask someone to check if it's plugged in. They'll just get offended, assume it's plugged in without checking and tell you it is. Instead tell them that dust gets into the plugs sometimes so take it out, blow on it and put it back in. When they're doing that they discover it wasn't plugged in, and replace it, usually without bothering to tell you why it magically starts working again. Must be that pesky dust!"
    - roel_v 16y ago
      Yeah I think it's the same, you get to deal with all sorts of folk. My father in law is a doctor but he started out as a pathologist, as he always says - 'at least I didn't have to deal with all those sick people' ;)
    - tjr 16y ago
      And sometimes we aren't as intelligent as we think we are. On the phone with my home DSL service provider tech support, I was sure that the modem had been fried in an electrical storm (and, in fact, it had been). But they made me go through the standard script of stuff to check first, starting with unplugging the modem from the phone-line jack and plugging it back in. I did so, killing the conversation with tech support, as the phone was plugged into the modem...
  - mbreese 16y ago
    My wife is an MD/PhD, and I'm almost a PhD (molecular biology/bioinformatics), so I completely get what you're talking about. It is almost a night and day difference when talking to doctors. When they find out what you know, you can then have a much higher level conversation about things. For example, with our kids' pediatrician, there is no need to pitch vaccines. The only question is what shot are they getting today? It's even funnier with our dog's vet. He started bringing out journal articles to explain stuff once. So, yeah, it can be a bit of a give and take to figure out what level the conversation can take place at, but once you're there, you can be far more productive. I find that's it's easier to just say, "I'm a scientist/programmer/whatever, so I get it...". Unfortunately, this type of problem arises anytime you have a highly skilled person trying to explain something to a novice, doctors don't have a monopoly on this. The other thing to remember is that sometimes they are just following policy and covering themselves legally by explaining something stupid.
dmlorenzetti 16y ago
Yes, and obviously I condensed the anecdote. Some aspects of the situation warranted charity (for example, we'd all traveled a long way to be there). Other aspects of her personality point to a basic lack of interest in anything outside her areas of expertise. And obviously it's just an anecdote-- my friend doesn't represent all doctors. Nor am I detailing her many excellent qualities (she truly cares about her patients and those around her).
- carbocation 16y ago
  I'm in medical school and took absolutely no offense; your storytelling was quite reasonable.

mbreese 16y ago

I'd say the more likely case is that she wasn't speaking literally. Doctors are usually trying to explain things to people who aren't going to know what modal means. Couple that with the fact that most doctors know just enough statistics to get by, and "the most common time for a baby to be born is 3am" gets translated to "the average baby is born at 3am". The bored look was probably just her rolling her eyes.

roel_v 16y ago
"Doctors are usually trying to explain things to people who aren't going to know what modal means." I talk to doctors quite often lately, with a daughter on the way and all, and the first few times I felt a bit miffed at what I took for her talking down to us. When it got to an absurd level with some nurses (who explained things like how to add several numbers by lining them up, putting a line underneath with a plus sign next to it, and then using a calculator to find the result (true story)), I thought about it some more and it must be because they need to target the lowest common denominator. Which I guess is someone with an iq of 85 or so, as people lower would get special counseling I think. I've tried to find effective methods to communicate to people that they can skip some of the 'duh' parts, but that's not easy. Just saying 'listen I'm no dumb' or even worse, 'hi I'm <name> and I'm a <name profession that requires university degree>' makes you look arrogant and will antagonize people, and they might not dumb it down on purpose anyway, so they might not have a way of not dumbing it down, either. Usually after a few talks people pick up the vibe on how fast you understand things and what you already know, but when you have many different contacts with various people it often not even comes to that point. Anyway sorry for the OT ;)
- ZeroGravitas 16y ago
  My wife just had the same experience and I likened it to me phoning a tech support line. Although it's frustrating they're not insulting your intelligence, they're probably just as sad as you are that they have to break it down to that level for most people. And, as someone with minor experience on the other side of tech support, you can't really afford to believe someone when they say they know what they're doing, they're quite possibly lying. A great tip my colleague mentioned from his days on tech support: "Never ask someone to check if it's plugged in. They'll just get offended, assume it's plugged in without checking and tell you it is. Instead tell them that dust gets into the plugs sometimes so take it out, blow on it and put it back in. When they're doing that they discover it wasn't plugged in, and replace it, usually without bothering to tell you why it magically starts working again. Must be that pesky dust!"
  - roel_v 16y ago
    Yeah I think it's the same, you get to deal with all sorts of folk. My father in law is a doctor but he started out as a pathologist, as he always says - 'at least I didn't have to deal with all those sick people' ;)
  - tjr 16y ago
    And sometimes we aren't as intelligent as we think we are. On the phone with my home DSL service provider tech support, I was sure that the modem had been fried in an electrical storm (and, in fact, it had been). But they made me go through the standard script of stuff to check first, starting with unplugging the modem from the phone-line jack and plugging it back in. I did so, killing the conversation with tech support, as the phone was plugged into the modem...
- mbreese 16y ago
  My wife is an MD/PhD, and I'm almost a PhD (molecular biology/bioinformatics), so I completely get what you're talking about. It is almost a night and day difference when talking to doctors. When they find out what you know, you can then have a much higher level conversation about things. For example, with our kids' pediatrician, there is no need to pitch vaccines. The only question is what shot are they getting today? It's even funnier with our dog's vet. He started bringing out journal articles to explain stuff once. So, yeah, it can be a bit of a give and take to figure out what level the conversation can take place at, but once you're there, you can be far more productive. I find that's it's easier to just say, "I'm a scientist/programmer/whatever, so I get it...". Unfortunately, this type of problem arises anytime you have a highly skilled person trying to explain something to a novice, doctors don't have a monopoly on this. The other thing to remember is that sometimes they are just following policy and covering themselves legally by explaining something stupid.

dmlorenzetti 16y ago

Yes, and obviously I condensed the anecdote. Some aspects of the situation warranted charity (for example, we'd all traveled a long way to be there). Other aspects of her personality point to a basic lack of interest in anything outside her areas of expertise. And obviously it's just an anecdote-- my friend doesn't represent all doctors. Nor am I detailing her many excellent qualities (she truly cares about her patients and those around her).

carbocation 16y ago
I'm in medical school and took absolutely no offense; your storytelling was quite reasonable.