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Your DNA is no more your private property than your or your grandmother's face. It's just not that big a deal. You shed your DNA everywhere. Knowing it isn't m

Your DNA is no more your private property than your or your grandmother's face. It's just not that big a deal. You shed your DNA everywhere. Knowing it isn't more useful than information about your life that is already collected and used to manipulate you all the time. It's one of the weaker forms of personal information available.

jammygit 8y ago
I'm imagining a dumpster diving industry arising where people find hair scraps and sell them to insurance companies
vbuwivbiu 8y ago
excuse me one's body and its DNA is most definitely one's property
- ada1981 8y ago
  What about the hair you leave behind on the subway? Or when you spit on the field during an ultimate frisbee game? I can’t take your hair off your head, but I can take it off the ground.
  - wolco 8y ago
    Or your breathe you push out of your lungs.
    - ada1981 8y ago
      Exactly.
  - tremendo 8y ago
    What about the image of my face I left behind on the subway, or on the field during an ultimate frisbee game? Sure you can keep my image on your camera, or photo print, but you may not profit from it, because it isn't your property.
- wolco 8y ago
  Just like your finger prints, height or face. It is uniquely yours but not your property. It's your set of attributes.
  - bradknowles 8y ago
    None of which are actually "uniquely yours", because everything we know to date about fingerprints or faces or DNA is that there is a low probability of collision with someone else having those same attributes, but it's not zero probability. Somewhere, somewhen, there is likely to be another person who has a face, or fingerprints, or snippet of DNA that cannot be distinguished from yours within the accuracy of the tools we have today.
- mattdodge 8y ago
  There was actually a podcast by Radiolab recently that discusses how and why this is not the case. It's counterintuitive for sure, but pretty interesting. https://www.wnycstudios.org/story/asking-friend https://www.wnycstudios.org/story/asking-friend
- scarejunba 8y ago
  Which must mean that you're a thief if you've ever brushed past me on the street. Give my DNA back.
ghaff 8y ago
In the US, you do have certain rights to your image. I cannot use an identifiable photograph of you for marketing or advertising without your permission. (That's why, for example, a lot of conference registrations require you to affirmatively agree that photos or videos of you may be used for marketing purposes.) But pretty much any other use of a photo in a public place is fair game if it doesn't misrepresent you in some way.
- wahern 8y ago
  Not all states recognize such a right. But most media organizations are based or operate in states like California that do recognize it.
  - Gene_Parmesan 8y ago
    31 states recognize such a right, but the extent of the protections involve vary considerably. In some states, it only protects your name and likeness, while others extend it all the way to things like "stage persona." California naturally has the highest degree of protection, given that it's the center of the entertainment industry.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
johnfactorial 8y ago
Agreed, "My DNA is my personal property," is a weak argument. "My DNA is my personally-identifying data," is a better one. The question of what rights we have to our personally identifiable information is not yet answered fully, and the debate is an important one (e.g. consider GDPR and the "right to be forgotten"). Data's worth is recognized today by those who are harvesting it from us. The mountains of data which only a few multinational corporations can gather and store in globally-distributed data centers are imperative to machine learning and the artificial intelligences they are making, which will soon direct a great many of our daily conveniences at potentially great profit to them. So it is important for us to today define what rights we demand to such a valuable resource, which is created solely by, and living within, the only item any of us has true natural possession of: our very bodies.
- dhimes 8y ago
  I agree with you completely.
- class4behavior 8y ago
  >Agreed Do not forget that op argues it isn't that big of a deal. >Data's worth is recognized today by those who are harvesting it from us. There is a lot more case-based, abstract, and long-term worth to privacy that is often unrecognized.
Razengan 8y ago
> Knowing it isn't more useful than information about your life that is already collected and used to manipulate you all the time. "Doing bad things isn't a big deal because of all the other bad things already being done." is not a good justification: Should an individual feel free to "dox" you with impunity because Google and Facebook have been doing it to you for years anyway?
smadge 8y ago
Just because there are dozens of other pieces of personal information that are collected by the powers that be and used to manipulate people doesn’t mean they all are justified.

jammygit 8y ago

I'm imagining a dumpster diving industry arising where people find hair scraps and sell them to insurance companies

vbuwivbiu 8y ago

excuse me one's body and its DNA is most definitely one's property

ada1981 8y ago
What about the hair you leave behind on the subway? Or when you spit on the field during an ultimate frisbee game? I can’t take your hair off your head, but I can take it off the ground.
- wolco 8y ago
  Or your breathe you push out of your lungs.
  - ada1981 8y ago
    Exactly.
- tremendo 8y ago
  What about the image of my face I left behind on the subway, or on the field during an ultimate frisbee game? Sure you can keep my image on your camera, or photo print, but you may not profit from it, because it isn't your property.
wolco 8y ago
Just like your finger prints, height or face. It is uniquely yours but not your property. It's your set of attributes.
- bradknowles 8y ago
  None of which are actually "uniquely yours", because everything we know to date about fingerprints or faces or DNA is that there is a low probability of collision with someone else having those same attributes, but it's not zero probability. Somewhere, somewhen, there is likely to be another person who has a face, or fingerprints, or snippet of DNA that cannot be distinguished from yours within the accuracy of the tools we have today.
mattdodge 8y ago
There was actually a podcast by Radiolab recently that discusses how and why this is not the case. It's counterintuitive for sure, but pretty interesting. https://www.wnycstudios.org/story/asking-friend https://www.wnycstudios.org/story/asking-friend
scarejunba 8y ago
Which must mean that you're a thief if you've ever brushed past me on the street. Give my DNA back.

ghaff 8y ago

In the US, you do have certain rights to your image. I cannot use an identifiable photograph of you for marketing or advertising without your permission. (That's why, for example, a lot of conference registrations require you to affirmatively agree that photos or videos of you may be used for marketing purposes.) But pretty much any other use of a photo in a public place is fair game if it doesn't misrepresent you in some way.

wahern 8y ago
Not all states recognize such a right. But most media organizations are based or operate in states like California that do recognize it.
- Gene_Parmesan 8y ago
  31 states recognize such a right, but the extent of the protections involve vary considerably. In some states, it only protects your name and likeness, while others extend it all the way to things like "stage persona." California naturally has the highest degree of protection, given that it's the center of the entertainment industry.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

johnfactorial 8y ago

Agreed, "My DNA is my personal property," is a weak argument. "My DNA is my personally-identifying data," is a better one. The question of what rights we have to our personally identifiable information is not yet answered fully, and the debate is an important one (e.g. consider GDPR and the "right to be forgotten"). Data's worth is recognized today by those who are harvesting it from us. The mountains of data which only a few multinational corporations can gather and store in globally-distributed data centers are imperative to machine learning and the artificial intelligences they are making, which will soon direct a great many of our daily conveniences at potentially great profit to them. So it is important for us to today define what rights we demand to such a valuable resource, which is created solely by, and living within, the only item any of us has true natural possession of: our very bodies.

dhimes 8y ago
I agree with you completely.
class4behavior 8y ago
>Agreed Do not forget that op argues it isn't that big of a deal. >Data's worth is recognized today by those who are harvesting it from us. There is a lot more case-based, abstract, and long-term worth to privacy that is often unrecognized.

Razengan 8y ago

> Knowing it isn't more useful than information about your life that is already collected and used to manipulate you all the time. "Doing bad things isn't a big deal because of all the other bad things already being done." is not a good justification: Should an individual feel free to "dox" you with impunity because Google and Facebook have been doing it to you for years anyway?

smadge 8y ago

Just because there are dozens of other pieces of personal information that are collected by the powers that be and used to manipulate people doesn’t mean they all are justified.