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Per the new lease: "Please note, customers who choose leasing over owning will not have the option to purchase their car at the end of the lease, because with

• danso 7y ago
  He’s promised FSD in 2019, just a couple months ago, even though Tesla logged no testing miles in the last 2 years in California: https://www.wired.com/story/elon-musk-tesla-full-self-driving-2019-2020-promise/ https://www.wired.com/story/elon-musk-tesla-full-self-drivin...
  • tntn 7y ago
    I guess they are just counting on testing via the irresponsible tesla drivers who tape water bottles to the steering wheel and such.
  • Twirrim 7y ago
    So more of the mostly deluded, same old, same old, Elon hype. There's so many indicators that FSD is ages away from being safe, and so many stories of Tesla's just randomly steering in towards barriers and needing quick action from their drivers, even as recent as last month.
    • fucking_tragedy 7y ago
      > even as recent as last month. Here's a video from a few days ago of Tesla's Autopilot seemingly getting confused by a line made out of dirt, veering off-road and crashing[1]. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWTMnnECBSo&t=51 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWTMnnECBSo&t=51
      • ricardobeat 7y ago
        That's not very indictive of Tesla. The driver ignored multiple signs posted with a 25mph limit, yellow 'tight curve ahead' signs and all, with plenty of time to spare. Also was there a mention of the car following the dirt line? It seems to me it loses traction way before that, and most likely disengages.
        • fucking_tragedy 7y ago
          Who was driving? Autopilot or "the person in the driver’s seat [who] is only there for legal reasons. He is not doing anything. The car is driving itself."[1]? [1] https://www.insurancejournal.com/news/national/2018/05/23/490104.htm https://www.insurancejournal.com/news/national/2018/05/23/49...
          • ricardobeat 7y ago
            That's a red herring, full self driving is not enabled in any car and drivers are fully aware. I failed to find any more information on this video. The dashboard is not visible, there is no sound, no way to tell if Autopilot was engaged or not, or if the car is even a Tesla. Also, I believe off-ramp functionality was only added recently with 'navigate on autopilot', if someone tried this without taking over as instructed, well...
  • deleted 7y ago
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• henryfjordan 7y ago
  He didn't promise autonomous cars in 3 years, he promised they won't be ready for at least 3 years. Hence the leasing scheme
  • FireBeyond 7y ago
    Other than the "The car will be able to self-drive, coast to coast, this year" back in Jan/Feb, you mean?
    • metalliqaz 7y ago
      that's not the same thing as "fully autonomous"
      • simias 7y ago
        What's the nuance then?
        • AnthonyMouse 7y ago
          You can get from one coast to the other entirely on a single interstate highway (e.g. I-80), and do it in dry weather and clear conditions. It's the easiest possible thing for an autonomous car to do and is basically just adaptive cruise control. The hard part is making it work with crazy cyclists on city streets and blizzard conditions and defending against malicious adversaries who purposely try to confuse the car into crashing into something.
      • aiCeivi9 7y ago
        https://www.theverge.com/2016/10/19/13341100/tesla-self-driving-autonomous-road-trip-la-nyc https://www.theverge.com/2016/10/19/13341100/tesla-self-driv... > Musk also promised a demonstration of a fully autonomous drive from Los Angeles to New York by the end of 2017 As in "without the need for a single touch from the driver". Doesn't really matter, AFAIK they are nowhere close.
    • toomuchtodo 7y ago
• twoodfin 7y ago
  Anyone want to lay odds on these cars ending up in a “certified pre-owned” program instead? This seems like a scheme to both boost future new car sales and effectively “sell” the same car twice.
  • ergothus 7y ago
    I recall a LOT of EV-1 owners (relatively speaking) that wanted to buy their vehicles when the program ended, and they were denied. Doesn't mean anything here, other than it is really hard to predict what "dumb" choices companies will make.
    • coredog64 7y ago
      You can’t compare EV-1 to Tesla. GM would have had a liability tail for the EV-1 (injuries and Magnussen-Moss parts/repairs). Tesla doesn’t have that problem since they already sell cars outright.
    • maxerickson 7y ago
      Did they make credible offers in terms of the costs GM would incur by selling them? (Imagine the fun news articles about GM selling them cars and then not having repair parts)
  • Someone1234 7y ago
    Unless they completely replaced the cells in the battery packs, I'd pass on a pre-owned EV. Even modern battery packs degrade year on year.
    • Shivetya 7y ago
      Tesla sells a good number of S and X models that are used. People still buy used Leafs and some of those were notorious for battery issues. Unlike Nissan Tesla packs are liquid cooled and managed. So for the most part what many have to move on from is the stereotype incurred by one brand having battery longevity issues affecting the perception of the industry. However I think it is a good idea to state they have a use for the off lease cars which gives them an out with having to expense new vehicles for such a risk venture; I am not a believer in anyone's autonomy programs. (disclaimer, I own a TM3)
• kbos87 7y ago
  It’s also interesting that they would even give the context that they plan on using these cars as part of a self driving network. Any other company could and would only say that there is no option for buyout and leave it at that.
• _red 7y ago
  I have yet speak to any experienced embedded developer who actually thinks "full autonomy" is remotely possible in the near/mid term. The suggestions that it is possible, seems to come mainly from junior developers and snake-oil salesman. We don't even have "full autonomous" trains, planes, or trucks yet.
  • latch 7y ago
    I generally agree that the lack of automation for seemingly simpler problems is good argument. However, there are a number of automated subway systems: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_automated_urban_metro_subway_systems#Grade-of-Automation_4_systems https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_automated_urban_metro_...
  • gibybo 7y ago
    "full autonomy" means lots of different things to different people. Some people think of it as being able to drive anywhere at any time in any condition. This is unlikely to ever happen before AGI. What matters in Tesla's case is more likely being able to drive in some small number of places in specific circumstances without a physical driver in the vehicle (but possibly a remote one to handle unusual circumstances). Now I don't think Tesla is going to even get to that in 3 years, but it wouldn't surprise me to see Waymo there.
    • JustSomeNobody 7y ago
      > ...some small number of places in specific circumstances.. Airport parking/shuttle service. They could even augment the AI by using markers in the roadways. That's about as autonomous as we're going to get in the next decade.
      • r_smart 7y ago
        Driving through airport terminals is possibly one of the most chaotic possible environments, with people almost suicidally throwing themselves in front of you, not to even speak of the cabs, double lane parking, security guards telling you to move and other things. It's probably one of the harder environments to automate for outside of inclement weather.
• Spooky23 7y ago
  Leases are rentals. A true lease always has a residual, but nothing forces the lessor to sell it to you. It's yet another red flag for buying a Tesla, as if you have something happen that is an uninsured liability to the car, or won't be resolved in the timeframe at the lease, you're stuck.
• oldjokes 7y ago
  It's becoming hard to believe anything that Tesla puts out or Elon says. It is a real shame the $35K 3 turned out to be a lie, the amount of PR that phrase has generated over the years is on par with all of SpaceX.
  • linuxftw 7y ago
    Some of us knew it was a lie from the jump. It's called 'not believing the hype.' I knew it was a bait and switch as soon as it was announced. Weirdly, this hasn't seemed to tarnish the reputation of tesla in the eyes of it's fans.
  • frontloadpro 7y ago
    SpaceX is a government subsidized advertisment. From the outside, I am learning a lot about how to build a cult following with other people's money and dreams. I'm not kidding either.
• mannykannot 7y ago
  Tesla seems to be coy about the terms - for example, how much does it cost to exceed the annual mileage cap? At the end of a lease, would you get a discount on a subsequent lease or purchase? This is all probably moot, as I imagine Tesla's lease has a clause allowing it to unilaterally change the rules at any time, and it has displayed no reticence in doing so over other issues.
• jaxbot 7y ago
  The idea that Tesla could get fully auto vehicles out of the existing Model 3s their building today is laughable. Even top-tier AV companies, with larger teams and far more advanced sensors, can't. There's a huge difference between working 95% of the time, and working well enough for a full auto fleet, and Tesla won't get there with pure cameras and a single front-facing radar. It's possible they could retrofit the old cars with new hardware, but other AV companies have suggested that retrofits aren't automotive-grade enough to last over time (sensor mounts drift too much, etc).
• Gpetrium 7y ago
  This quote serves three purposes: (1) It emphasizes the value in software, not the car's 'carcass'; (2) It hypes a future marketplace and business model for Tesla's stock purchasers; (3) It tells the customer that they are better off buying the good instead of renting. I agree that it seems to be a rental. If the business expects to continue to make updates to the car's software assuming that it will be determining factors for its value, it will be difficult to determine the residual value at the end. Does that mean that leases will cease to exist? That we will find a way to price the software updates? or that older cars will stop being updated the same way cellphones & OS systems are?
  • kristianc 7y ago
    > This quote serves three purposes: (1) It emphasizes the value in software, not the car's 'carcass'; If only it were like software. Producing another marginal unit of software is trivial.
• philwelch 7y ago
  Tesla’s self-driving promises are reaching Theranos levels of sheer implausibility. The frustrating part is that they don’t need to make these absurd claims about self-driving; they already have a successful electric car business.
  • mhermher 7y ago
    You're not digging deep enough. The reason they need to hype it is because they don't have one.
  • pyify 7y ago
    Except that they actually have a limited form of self-driving, which has proven successful over millions of miles of driving? Comparing something to Theranos only works if that something doesn't have a working product. You can see that Tesla's autopilot works. It isn't perfect yet but it is a real thing.
• Cookingboy 7y ago
  This has nothing to do with FSD. Tesla can now set the lease rate with a very artificially low residual value so they can charge more monthly (but is offset somewhat by the capitalized cost deduction of the tax rebate), and then actually sell the car at market value after 3 years. It's one way to double dip on the same vehicle and get more than 100% in revenue in respect to the original MSRP. But sure throw that line in to cash in on the hype of ride sharing IPOs and FSD so they can raise a nice equity round in the near future.
  • jmpman 7y ago
    When would they be able to book the monthly lease, and the subsequent sale to their bottom line? It seems like a lease wouldn’t be the best method to help the short term finances.
    • Cookingboy 7y ago
      It's not, but it's better than no demand, that's why it's the last lever they wanted to pull. Tesla is getting a bit desperate. Model 3 demand is obviously not shaping up to what they hoped.