5 ms·

Your employer is able to bargain with you as one massive, collective organization with all its resources to bear. Why should you have to negotiate with them as

by kyllo 8y ago

Your employer is able to bargain with you as one massive, collective organization with all its resources to bear. Why should you have to negotiate with them as a one atomic individual person, when you and your coworkers can instead get together and negotiate from a much stronger position?

maxxxxx 8y ago
The worst is that with the secrecy about compensation you don’t have enough information to negotiate effectively whereas the employer has full information.
appleiigs 8y ago
When you join the union, you lose the atomic individuality. I've been a union member and a manager outside of a union. When I was in the union, they tried to prevent me from getting paid more - they wanted me to fall in line with the collective agreement which specified my hourly rate. If you don't go with mob, they call you a scab. Not pretty. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strikebreaker https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strikebreaker
mises 8y ago
There's a difference between unionization and trying to get board representation. Also, in many states, you're stuck dealing with a union in many jobs. You now have to negotiate with the union as one atomic person... The thing I personally hate about unions is their political advocacy. The idea that a worker is stuck supporting a politician he might not agree with is one that makes me very uncomfortable. Also, I think appleiigs summarized it better than I did, with the lack of individuality.
scarface74 8y ago
I can already negotiate better than my coworkers. Why should I tie my compensation to theirs?
- kyllo 8y ago
  Because if you and your co-workers all negotiate together, you have more bargaining power and can extract much greater concessions.
  - scarface74 8y ago
    But it also means that the people of lower ability whether technical or negotiating get more but the people with more ability get less. Unions really fight against performance based differences... https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/11/us/denver-teacher-strike.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/11/us/denver-teacher-strike.... https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/michel-kellygagnon/union-performance-pay_b_6694350.html https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/michel-kellygagnon/union-perfo... As it turns out, union contracts don't just set minimum prices that employees can be paid; they also tend to set pay ceilings that employers cannot exceed without the union's permission--and that permission is rarely forthcoming. Paying the most talented, hardest-working employees more than the average Joe who barely works to rule is not allowed, you see.

by kyllo 8y ago

maxxxxx 8y ago

The worst is that with the secrecy about compensation you don’t have enough information to negotiate effectively whereas the employer has full information.

appleiigs 8y ago

When you join the union, you lose the atomic individuality. I've been a union member and a manager outside of a union. When I was in the union, they tried to prevent me from getting paid more - they wanted me to fall in line with the collective agreement which specified my hourly rate. If you don't go with mob, they call you a scab. Not pretty. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strikebreaker https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strikebreaker

mises 8y ago

There's a difference between unionization and trying to get board representation. Also, in many states, you're stuck dealing with a union in many jobs. You now have to negotiate with the union as one atomic person... The thing I personally hate about unions is their political advocacy. The idea that a worker is stuck supporting a politician he might not agree with is one that makes me very uncomfortable. Also, I think appleiigs summarized it better than I did, with the lack of individuality.

scarface74 8y ago

I can already negotiate better than my coworkers. Why should I tie my compensation to theirs?

kyllo 8y ago
Because if you and your co-workers all negotiate together, you have more bargaining power and can extract much greater concessions.
- scarface74 8y ago
  But it also means that the people of lower ability whether technical or negotiating get more but the people with more ability get less. Unions really fight against performance based differences... https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/11/us/denver-teacher-strike.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/11/us/denver-teacher-strike.... https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/michel-kellygagnon/union-performance-pay_b_6694350.html https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/michel-kellygagnon/union-perfo... As it turns out, union contracts don't just set minimum prices that employees can be paid; they also tend to set pay ceilings that employers cannot exceed without the union's permission--and that permission is rarely forthcoming. Paying the most talented, hardest-working employees more than the average Joe who barely works to rule is not allowed, you see.