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Maybe the reality is that all the science fiction stories have got it wrong all these times: that we have to genetically engineer different humans to traverse i

Maybe the reality is that all the science fiction stories have got it wrong all these times: that we have to genetically engineer different humans to traverse interplanetary (and in the far future, interstellar) distances and to live in alien worlds, so that we have less in common with them, physiologically, than we have with, say, the Cro Magnons.

RobertoG 7y ago
That's the subject of many science fiction stories. Paul McAulie excellent "The mouth of the whale" comes to mind, for instance.
- jacobush 7y ago
  Stephen Baxster IIRC has some weird dolphin like humans living on Titan.
bognition 7y ago
This is a major plot point in the Hyperion Cantos by Dan Simmons
narag 7y ago
I imagine interstellar travel with some kind of Matrix-like hibernation. But all the problems with interplanetary are just a matter of stinginess. Low gravity? Make a 2001 style ring. Radiation? Make a big ass ship with enough isolation. Is that astronomically expensive? Of course. But avoid gravity well. Start building a Moon base with mining facilities, then move to Ceres, and son on. Current Mars fever is a distraction. We have no idea what Mars gravity could do to babies born there. Do parents have the right to raise their children in Mars? Even if they're viable, they might want to come to Earth and find out their bodies won't resist the gravity. What about waiting for animal tests?
- Udo 7y ago
  > Current Mars fever is a distraction. Yes, but it's a distraction from doing absolutely nothing at all with humans in space. I agree in a saner world we'd have built a Moon base first, and then moved on from there. But it's apparently not how we as a civilization operate. Instead we set lofty and slightly impractical goals. If we meet those goals, we usually take two steps back and wait for a few generations. But if we are not successful, we usually never try again. It's not ideal, but yes, I'd absolutely prefer an ambitious Mars program over nothing at all. And for decades, until recently, nothing at all was where we were comfortable. > We have no idea what Mars gravity could do to babies born there. Do parents have the right to raise their children in Mars? Historically, we have been very bad at predicting these things, and we usually mispredicted on the side of doom. Yes, there will be a physiological impact, not just on babies, on everybody living there. However, there is no reason as such to assume babies in particular would be unviable there. Today, parents can and regularly do make decisions about their children's mental and physical health that are absolutely known to be detrimental. For better or worse, we generally accept that children are brought up completely powerless over their lifestyle, their healthcare, their economic situation, their education, their belief system... Compared to that settling on another world with unknown dangers seems at least on par. I'd wager that a child born on Mars today is way more likely to die of things other than gravity or the lack thereof. We already have animal test data in microgravity.
  - whatshisface 7y ago
    >I agree in a saner world we'd have built a Moon base first, and then moved on from there. Mars is more livable than the moon because it has atmospheric CO2, (more) water, and a better mineral story. >Today, parents can and regularly do make decisions about their children's mental and physical health that are absolutely known to be detrimental. After decades of parenting and diet fads followed by a replication crisis, it's clear that nothing which filters down to the parents could be called anything close to known (much less absolutely).
    - Udo 7y ago
      It seems a bit as if you're not reading my comment in the context it was intended for. > Mars is more livable than the moon because it has atmospheric CO2, (more) water, and a better mineral story. The post I was answering posited a Moon base first because it's a less ambitious test bed, and I think that is largely correct. I was not making the case for a self-sufficient Moon colony instead of colonizing Mars. > it's clear that nothing which filters down to the parents could be called anything close to known (much less absolutely). It is very hard to make that argument convincingly in the face of, say, honor killings. Yes, theoretically you could argue that parents who intentionally harm their child technically do not "know" any better. But if we are talking on that level, that is certainly not an argument in support of why giving birth to a baby on Mars is somehow worse.
laHiesh1 7y ago
I think it's more likely that we would peruse spinning space habitats to simulate gravity regardless of whether zero gravity has long term and irreversible negative effects on the human body. I don't think it'll be quite necessary to genetically modify anyone.
djsumdog 7y ago
The Expanse series kinda touches on this. In those fictional books, those raised in space (Belters, Luna, etc.) are often taller being raised in lower gravity. Kim Stanley Robinson also kinda hits on this describing people who are raised on Mars. I highly recommend the Mars trilogy; best Sci-Fi I've ever read.
arethuza 7y ago
For interstellar distances I'd go with Greg Egan's Diaspora and Accelerando by Charlie Stross and assume that interstellar distances could only be achieved with uploaded minds - bags of meat and fluid being far too big, slow and delicate for the energies and distances involved.

RobertoG 7y ago

That's the subject of many science fiction stories. Paul McAulie excellent "The mouth of the whale" comes to mind, for instance.

jacobush 7y ago
Stephen Baxster IIRC has some weird dolphin like humans living on Titan.

bognition 7y ago

This is a major plot point in the Hyperion Cantos by Dan Simmons

narag 7y ago

I imagine interstellar travel with some kind of Matrix-like hibernation. But all the problems with interplanetary are just a matter of stinginess. Low gravity? Make a 2001 style ring. Radiation? Make a big ass ship with enough isolation. Is that astronomically expensive? Of course. But avoid gravity well. Start building a Moon base with mining facilities, then move to Ceres, and son on. Current Mars fever is a distraction. We have no idea what Mars gravity could do to babies born there. Do parents have the right to raise their children in Mars? Even if they're viable, they might want to come to Earth and find out their bodies won't resist the gravity. What about waiting for animal tests?

Udo 7y ago
> Current Mars fever is a distraction. Yes, but it's a distraction from doing absolutely nothing at all with humans in space. I agree in a saner world we'd have built a Moon base first, and then moved on from there. But it's apparently not how we as a civilization operate. Instead we set lofty and slightly impractical goals. If we meet those goals, we usually take two steps back and wait for a few generations. But if we are not successful, we usually never try again. It's not ideal, but yes, I'd absolutely prefer an ambitious Mars program over nothing at all. And for decades, until recently, nothing at all was where we were comfortable. > We have no idea what Mars gravity could do to babies born there. Do parents have the right to raise their children in Mars? Historically, we have been very bad at predicting these things, and we usually mispredicted on the side of doom. Yes, there will be a physiological impact, not just on babies, on everybody living there. However, there is no reason as such to assume babies in particular would be unviable there. Today, parents can and regularly do make decisions about their children's mental and physical health that are absolutely known to be detrimental. For better or worse, we generally accept that children are brought up completely powerless over their lifestyle, their healthcare, their economic situation, their education, their belief system... Compared to that settling on another world with unknown dangers seems at least on par. I'd wager that a child born on Mars today is way more likely to die of things other than gravity or the lack thereof. We already have animal test data in microgravity.
- whatshisface 7y ago
  >I agree in a saner world we'd have built a Moon base first, and then moved on from there. Mars is more livable than the moon because it has atmospheric CO2, (more) water, and a better mineral story. >Today, parents can and regularly do make decisions about their children's mental and physical health that are absolutely known to be detrimental. After decades of parenting and diet fads followed by a replication crisis, it's clear that nothing which filters down to the parents could be called anything close to known (much less absolutely).
  - Udo 7y ago
    It seems a bit as if you're not reading my comment in the context it was intended for. > Mars is more livable than the moon because it has atmospheric CO2, (more) water, and a better mineral story. The post I was answering posited a Moon base first because it's a less ambitious test bed, and I think that is largely correct. I was not making the case for a self-sufficient Moon colony instead of colonizing Mars. > it's clear that nothing which filters down to the parents could be called anything close to known (much less absolutely). It is very hard to make that argument convincingly in the face of, say, honor killings. Yes, theoretically you could argue that parents who intentionally harm their child technically do not "know" any better. But if we are talking on that level, that is certainly not an argument in support of why giving birth to a baby on Mars is somehow worse.

laHiesh1 7y ago

I think it's more likely that we would peruse spinning space habitats to simulate gravity regardless of whether zero gravity has long term and irreversible negative effects on the human body. I don't think it'll be quite necessary to genetically modify anyone.

djsumdog 7y ago

The Expanse series kinda touches on this. In those fictional books, those raised in space (Belters, Luna, etc.) are often taller being raised in lower gravity. Kim Stanley Robinson also kinda hits on this describing people who are raised on Mars. I highly recommend the Mars trilogy; best Sci-Fi I've ever read.

arethuza 7y ago

For interstellar distances I'd go with Greg Egan's Diaspora and Accelerando by Charlie Stross and assume that interstellar distances could only be achieved with uploaded minds - bags of meat and fluid being far too big, slow and delicate for the energies and distances involved.