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I have never seen a single company/startup place a job posting for a junior position, (lucky if they even say training) Last time I checked, everyone wants to

I have never seen a single company/startup place a job posting for a junior position, (lucky if they even say training) Last time I checked, everyone wants to look for a senior developer with 5+ years of experience. It's some sort of hidden bonus if you're from a FAANG company as well. I'm guessing everyone wants to be the next Google, Facebook, Amazon, Netflix or Uber.

cimmanom 8y ago
so they do want junior developers. They’re just giving them the “senior” title ridiculously early in their careers. What no one REALLY wants are ENTRY LEVEL developers, who tend to be a net negative to productivity for roughly the first year or two.
- luckylion 8y ago
  Meh, in pretty much every company I've seen there are lots of entry level jobs to be done. Sure, you can ask an experienced developer to take care of them, and they will, but they'd rather apply their skills to more challenging tasks, or you could give them to a beginner, let them figure it out and run it by a more experienced dev to review. We've done that with a guy that had been out of programming for half a decade but wanted back in. Within half a year he was a great asset. I believe it's more about whether the person is happy to learn something new, not so much what they already know.
- EliRivers 8y ago
  Had someone respond to a job ad for a senior dev last week with 18 months experience. I was skeptical. I've never seen anyone develop senior level soft skills in that timeframe, and skill with requirements and design and so on seem to take a lot more time than 18 months.
- bpicolo 8y ago
  Every new grad, intern I've worked with has done an amazing job hitting the ground running. They're not ready for "here's a big problem, please dream up a solution and get it out the door", but with reasonably laid out tasks they do a fantastic job working out the code and improving their technical chops along the way. Juniors who are eager to learn are my favorite employees
  - 0xffff2 8y ago
    >Every new grad, intern I've worked with has done an amazing job hitting the ground running. You've been incredibly lucky. It's great when it happens, but it's certainly not the norm (speaking from experience at a well-known organization that hires a lot of interns).
- cookiecaper 8y ago
  > They’re just giving them the “senior” title ridiculously early in their careers. Yes, companies are usually more eager to throw out titles than they are to throw out dollars. True seniors need to push much harder on the compensation aspect to give these companies a sense of scale, and ideally, start pushing back on working with 23 yr old "Sr Directors". It's a substantial failure of the field that for most people, there isn't a lifelong career trajectory that doesn't require moving into management.
mixmastamyk 8y ago
> everyone wants to look for a senior developer with 5+ years But no more than 10.
- SamuelAdams 8y ago
  Right because 10+ year people are expensive and there's the stigma of spending your whole career as a programmer. After 5-10 years, most companies expect you to move into a specialized field or management. I don't agree with that stigma at all, but it's there all the same.
  - scarface74 8y ago
    Well seeing that I’ve been developing for over 20+ years and really only started switching jobs at 35. I’ve had no trouble finding jobs.
crispyambulance 8y ago
That would be the case if one read such postings literally. It is best to disregard the bullshit in job postings and just apply if you can demonstrate some proficiency with some key skills. Or better, make contact with someone in the organization before applying. It's not about meeting the job description. It's about being better a better choice than the competition.

cimmanom 8y ago

so they do want junior developers. They’re just giving them the “senior” title ridiculously early in their careers. What no one REALLY wants are ENTRY LEVEL developers, who tend to be a net negative to productivity for roughly the first year or two.

luckylion 8y ago
Meh, in pretty much every company I've seen there are lots of entry level jobs to be done. Sure, you can ask an experienced developer to take care of them, and they will, but they'd rather apply their skills to more challenging tasks, or you could give them to a beginner, let them figure it out and run it by a more experienced dev to review. We've done that with a guy that had been out of programming for half a decade but wanted back in. Within half a year he was a great asset. I believe it's more about whether the person is happy to learn something new, not so much what they already know.
EliRivers 8y ago
Had someone respond to a job ad for a senior dev last week with 18 months experience. I was skeptical. I've never seen anyone develop senior level soft skills in that timeframe, and skill with requirements and design and so on seem to take a lot more time than 18 months.
bpicolo 8y ago
Every new grad, intern I've worked with has done an amazing job hitting the ground running. They're not ready for "here's a big problem, please dream up a solution and get it out the door", but with reasonably laid out tasks they do a fantastic job working out the code and improving their technical chops along the way. Juniors who are eager to learn are my favorite employees
- 0xffff2 8y ago
  >Every new grad, intern I've worked with has done an amazing job hitting the ground running. You've been incredibly lucky. It's great when it happens, but it's certainly not the norm (speaking from experience at a well-known organization that hires a lot of interns).
cookiecaper 8y ago
> They’re just giving them the “senior” title ridiculously early in their careers. Yes, companies are usually more eager to throw out titles than they are to throw out dollars. True seniors need to push much harder on the compensation aspect to give these companies a sense of scale, and ideally, start pushing back on working with 23 yr old "Sr Directors". It's a substantial failure of the field that for most people, there isn't a lifelong career trajectory that doesn't require moving into management.

mixmastamyk 8y ago

> everyone wants to look for a senior developer with 5+ years But no more than 10.

SamuelAdams 8y ago
Right because 10+ year people are expensive and there's the stigma of spending your whole career as a programmer. After 5-10 years, most companies expect you to move into a specialized field or management. I don't agree with that stigma at all, but it's there all the same.
- scarface74 8y ago
  Well seeing that I’ve been developing for over 20+ years and really only started switching jobs at 35. I’ve had no trouble finding jobs.

crispyambulance 8y ago

That would be the case if one read such postings literally. It is best to disregard the bullshit in job postings and just apply if you can demonstrate some proficiency with some key skills. Or better, make contact with someone in the organization before applying. It's not about meeting the job description. It's about being better a better choice than the competition.