3 ms·

We don't really have probably cause in that sense in the UK. Any driver can be stopped at any time purely to check documents if required - police don't need to

We don't really have probably cause in that sense in the UK. Any driver can be stopped at any time purely to check documents if required - police don't need to have a reason.

devoply 7y ago
Probable cause is used to search the car. Police can't randomly search cars. However in order to target areas with minorities who are involved with drugs, they use police dogs that can supposedly sniff drugs. But the dogs really just read their handlers and bark when their handlers want them to. Police can stop anyone at any time for documents. /papers please Recently in Canada a driver was charged for distracted driving for simply wearing headphones while driving. The judge decided that regardless of whether they were functional or not he was guilty. All these things just point to the fact that you don't want to deal with the police or with the law as both them don't really care about reality, just their manufactured fictions they use to justify their power over people. As Fault called it biopower.
- DanBC 7y ago
  That's not true in the UK. Police can use reasonable grounds to search and they don't need a dog to alert to give them those reasonable grounds. The dogs, if used, in the UK probably are sniffing actual drugs. Here's some legal information: https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/scotland/law-and-courts/legal-system-s/police-s/police-powers-to-stop-and-search-enter-private-property-and-seize-goods-s/ https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/scotland/law-and-courts/le...
  - devoply 7y ago
    It looks like it's true. > You can also be searched if the police have reasonable grounds to suspect you have: > illegal drugs Use a dog. Pretend it's reasonable grounds. > In all situations, you can’t be searched just because of how you look or who you are, as this is discrimination. Yes it is and that's how you use a dog to discriminate and maintain the legal fiction.
    - stordoff 7y ago
      There are only about 2,000 police dogs in the UK (1,900[1] / 2,500[2]) (vs. _about_ 50,000 in the US [3] - about five times more per capita). It seems unlikely they are being used for routine traffic stops. Furthermore, reasonable grounds is a low bar. From the code of conduct in the linked document (Scots law, but the whole UK is similar)[4]: > Reasonable suspicion may also exist without specific information or intelligence and on the basis of the behaviour of a person. For example, if a constable encounters someone on the street who is obviously trying to hide something, the constable may (depending on the other surrounding circumstances) base such suspicion on the fact that this kind of behaviour is often linked to stolen or prohibited articles being carried A police dog is frankly overkill for establishing reasonable grounds. [1] https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2016-11-14/debates/D856FCAE-9EF4-49CF-99A0-AF5F379BEF94/PoliceDogsAndHorses https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2016-11-14/debates/D85... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_dog#United_Kingdom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_dog#United_Kingdom [3] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/11/20/the-surprising-reason-more-police-dogs-are-dying-in-the-line-of-duty/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/11/20/the-s... [4] https://www2.gov.scot/Resource/0051/00512924.pdf https://www2.gov.scot/Resource/0051/00512924.pdf
DanBC 7y ago
Here's the law: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/part/VII/crossheading/powers-of-constables-and-other-authorised-persons https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/part/VII/crossh...

We don't really have probably cause in that sense in the UK. Any driver can be stopped at any time purely to check documents if required - police don't need to have a reason.

devoply 7y ago

Probable cause is used to search the car. Police can't randomly search cars. However in order to target areas with minorities who are involved with drugs, they use police dogs that can supposedly sniff drugs. But the dogs really just read their handlers and bark when their handlers want them to. Police can stop anyone at any time for documents. /papers please Recently in Canada a driver was charged for distracted driving for simply wearing headphones while driving. The judge decided that regardless of whether they were functional or not he was guilty. All these things just point to the fact that you don't want to deal with the police or with the law as both them don't really care about reality, just their manufactured fictions they use to justify their power over people. As Fault called it biopower.

DanBC 7y ago
That's not true in the UK. Police can use reasonable grounds to search and they don't need a dog to alert to give them those reasonable grounds. The dogs, if used, in the UK probably are sniffing actual drugs. Here's some legal information: https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/scotland/law-and-courts/legal-system-s/police-s/police-powers-to-stop-and-search-enter-private-property-and-seize-goods-s/ https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/scotland/law-and-courts/le...
- devoply 7y ago
  It looks like it's true. > You can also be searched if the police have reasonable grounds to suspect you have: > illegal drugs Use a dog. Pretend it's reasonable grounds. > In all situations, you can’t be searched just because of how you look or who you are, as this is discrimination. Yes it is and that's how you use a dog to discriminate and maintain the legal fiction.
  - stordoff 7y ago
    There are only about 2,000 police dogs in the UK (1,900[1] / 2,500[2]) (vs. _about_ 50,000 in the US [3] - about five times more per capita). It seems unlikely they are being used for routine traffic stops. Furthermore, reasonable grounds is a low bar. From the code of conduct in the linked document (Scots law, but the whole UK is similar)[4]: > Reasonable suspicion may also exist without specific information or intelligence and on the basis of the behaviour of a person. For example, if a constable encounters someone on the street who is obviously trying to hide something, the constable may (depending on the other surrounding circumstances) base such suspicion on the fact that this kind of behaviour is often linked to stolen or prohibited articles being carried A police dog is frankly overkill for establishing reasonable grounds. [1] https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2016-11-14/debates/D856FCAE-9EF4-49CF-99A0-AF5F379BEF94/PoliceDogsAndHorses https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2016-11-14/debates/D85... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_dog#United_Kingdom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_dog#United_Kingdom [3] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/11/20/the-surprising-reason-more-police-dogs-are-dying-in-the-line-of-duty/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/11/20/the-s... [4] https://www2.gov.scot/Resource/0051/00512924.pdf https://www2.gov.scot/Resource/0051/00512924.pdf

DanBC 7y ago

Here's the law: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/part/VII/crossheading/powers-of-constables-and-other-authorised-persons https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/part/VII/crossh...