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Actually this is the opposite of the American system of justice. People are presumed innocent until the facts are known. So it's only afterwards that we should

Actually this is the opposite of the American system of justice. People are presumed innocent until the facts are known. So it's only afterwards that we should, according to our culture, give up his defense.

JohnFen 8y ago
> People are presumed innocent until the facts are known. Inside the justice system, yes. I am not a part of the justice system, and I have every right to have my own opinion. I'm suspending my personal judgement until I feel I have a better handle on what's happened.
ameister14 8y ago
No - you don't need to defend someone to withhold judgement.
jcranmer 8y ago
The judicial system presumes innocence. The media, and public opinion, does not. It's debatable if the court of public opinion should presume innocence as well.
- mLuby 8y ago
  It should but does not. The court of public opinion should be subordinate to the judicial system. When it isn't, you end up with a kind of cognitive dissonance where someone is legally declared not guilty but still suffers social consequences due to bad optics.
  - JohnFen 8y ago
    > The court of public opinion should be subordinate to the judicial system. I don't think I agree with this. The legal system decides whether or not an action was legal, not whether or not an action was acceptable in society. The court of public opinion decides whether or not an action was acceptable in society, not whether or not it was legal. They address two different things, and I think that's proper. You don't really want the legal system deciding social mores, and you also don't really want legality to be determined based on the public's emotional reaction to things.
    - dwaltrip 8y ago
      > The legal system decides whether or not an action was legal This isn't quite right. The legal system decides if a person is guilty of committing an illegal act, and if so, what the sentence should be. The system may find that the person did not actually perform the act they were accused of doing, regardless of the legality of that act.

JohnFen 8y ago

> People are presumed innocent until the facts are known. Inside the justice system, yes. I am not a part of the justice system, and I have every right to have my own opinion. I'm suspending my personal judgement until I feel I have a better handle on what's happened.

ameister14 8y ago

No - you don't need to defend someone to withhold judgement.

jcranmer 8y ago

The judicial system presumes innocence. The media, and public opinion, does not. It's debatable if the court of public opinion should presume innocence as well.

mLuby 8y ago
It should but does not. The court of public opinion should be subordinate to the judicial system. When it isn't, you end up with a kind of cognitive dissonance where someone is legally declared not guilty but still suffers social consequences due to bad optics.
- JohnFen 8y ago
  > The court of public opinion should be subordinate to the judicial system. I don't think I agree with this. The legal system decides whether or not an action was legal, not whether or not an action was acceptable in society. The court of public opinion decides whether or not an action was acceptable in society, not whether or not it was legal. They address two different things, and I think that's proper. You don't really want the legal system deciding social mores, and you also don't really want legality to be determined based on the public's emotional reaction to things.
  - dwaltrip 8y ago
    > The legal system decides whether or not an action was legal This isn't quite right. The legal system decides if a person is guilty of committing an illegal act, and if so, what the sentence should be. The system may find that the person did not actually perform the act they were accused of doing, regardless of the legality of that act.