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I think it's important to acclaim arguments against bad behavior, even when made by people who are doing that same bad behavior. (1) Having good arguments out
by clucas 8y ago
I think it's important to acclaim arguments against bad behavior, even when made by people who are doing that same bad behavior.
(1) Having good arguments out in the world is a good thing.
(2) Positive feedback tends to reinforce behavior - and we want to reinforce news orgs making good arguments against bad behavior.
(3) After you have acclaimed their argument, it's much more effective when you use it against them.
If you just constantly snipe at people and organizations, I think it becomes much harder to effect change.
In "Phaedo," Plato has Socrates give a lesson about misology - that is, hating all reasoning and arguments, and assuming they are bad because you can always find flaws and it's so difficult to reach certainty. It's the intellectual version of misanthropy. Socrates cautions strongly against misology. Just because there are problems with an argument, doesn't mean we shouldn't continue to try to improve and take the good parts from every argument we can find, no matter how flawed the other parts (or the speaker) are. I think this is an important lesson in these times. I think we should stop fighting over whether a person or organization is allowed to say certain things, and concentrate on what parts of what they say should change our behavior.
- merpnderp 8y agoI agree with most of what you say. But Socrates not only spoke of Logos he spoke of Ethos and Kairos. Bad people making good statements can often weaken an argument because no one wants to associated with lying aholes. I’m sure Hitler said something good about something, but I’m sure as hell not using his arguments.
- tripzilch 8y ago> I’m sure Hitler said something good about something, but I’m sure as hell not using his arguments. That's ridiculous. If Hitler once made a good argument about something, that doesn't invalidate usage of that same argument by other people. I mean really. I can't even think of a hypothetical example where that would make sense. And Hitler fucking sucked, fuck that guy.