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There's a certain burden to being vigilant and self-defensive on the road. Even if I'm not protected in intersections, a protected bike lane means that there's

There's a certain burden to being vigilant and self-defensive on the road. Even if I'm not protected in intersections, a protected bike lane means that there's a lot less time I need to be worried that a car will hit me. However, you're bringing up the point that protected bike lanes may make intersections even more dangerous for cyclists. While your reasoning makes sense, do you know if there's anything to corroborate that claim?

CydeWeys 8y ago
They're not. Protected bike lanes are for sure safer than unprotected bike lanes. If there are problems at intersections, that means that the bike lanes aren't protected enough. Amsterdam for example doesn't have these kinds of issues because their design (and especially light signaling) is better.
- btrettel 8y ago
  > If there are problems at intersections, that means that the bike lanes aren't protected enough. Amsterdam for example doesn't have these kinds of issues because their design (and especially light signaling) is better. I agree. The problem is that I have never seen those sorts of lanes in the US. The choice is between semi-protected lanes which may be worse or no lanes. I don't know precisely which is better, but I usually choose to not use the protected lanes due to issues at intersections.
  - CydeWeys 8y ago
    We have intersections like this in NYC. Look at 8th and 9th Avenues in Chelsea for one example. There are separate phases for bikes going straight and vehicles turning left across them.
  - celestialjeu 8y ago
    We also have a few of these kinds of lanes in Austin. There are a few downtown and a few in East Austin.
    - btrettel 8y ago
      Where specifically? I'm not aware of bike lanes that have a special light for vehicles turning across the bike lane in Austin.
  - fooblitzky 8y ago
    Seattle also has pretty good signage for their (very limited) protected bike lanes - typically a green-painted turning lane, with yield markings and signs. I still see drivers ignoring them from time to time - I think Mad-Eye Moody's mantra is a good one to keep in mind when riding a bike: "Constant Vigilance!".
- u801e 8y ago
  > If there are problems at intersections, that means that the bike lanes aren't protected enough Unless you design the intersections properly, then you're never going to achieve that protection. The best way to design them would be to follow how limited access highways/motorways interact with surface streets. In other words, they use interchanges.
btrettel 8y ago
I'm not sure there's much clear data on this. I have plenty of anecdotes from myself and other cyclists, however. Here's what is clear: Many cyclists worry about getting rear-ended, which presumably is a major part of what bike lanes are supposed to eliminate, but those sorts of crashes are rare: http://bicyclesafe.com/#rearend2 http://bicyclesafe.com/#rearend2 I can recall a pro-bike-lane advocacy organization had some different data that said being rear-ended is actually common, but that seems very discordant with the remainder of the data, and they seem hardly unbiased. (The webmaster of the site I linked to seems neutral on bike lanes.) The main risks come from intersections, and most bike lanes, even protected ones, don't address that. My concern is that bike lanes may give inexperienced cyclists a false sense of security. These problems are relatively easily avoided if one is aware of them. See this website to learn about how to avoid the most common types of bike crashes: http://bicyclesafe.com/ http://bicyclesafe.com/
- JohnFen 8y ago
  As a bicyclist, I can tell you what my greatest fear is: parked cars. Statistically speaking, I am far more likely to get hurt because someone opened their driver's side door without looking than from any other cause. As a result, when I ride by parked cars I make sure that I'm at least a car-door-length away from them when at all possible.
acomjean 8y ago
I live in Cambridge and agree with the reasoning as a driver and a cyclist. They put a bike lane inside the car parking area along the main drag (Cambridge street) i live on. It’s hard as a driver to make sure the lane is clear before turning, and when cycling through you still have to be careful and look before crossing the side streets. It’s still better and it’s been a year since I saw a bicyclist and a driver have words when the car failed to yield.
z2 8y ago
Ignorance of rules seem to be part of the issue. Using bike lanes (in Cambridge!), I've had turning drivers honk or yell nasty things at intersections as I went straight through, not knowing they are required to yield. Drivers are trained to be forgiving to pedestrians and the crazy jay-walking that happens in Boston, but still treat bikes like aberrations. I drive as well, and admit it felt very unnatural at first at check behind me for bikes when turning right.

CydeWeys 8y ago

They're not. Protected bike lanes are for sure safer than unprotected bike lanes. If there are problems at intersections, that means that the bike lanes aren't protected enough. Amsterdam for example doesn't have these kinds of issues because their design (and especially light signaling) is better.

btrettel 8y ago
> If there are problems at intersections, that means that the bike lanes aren't protected enough. Amsterdam for example doesn't have these kinds of issues because their design (and especially light signaling) is better. I agree. The problem is that I have never seen those sorts of lanes in the US. The choice is between semi-protected lanes which may be worse or no lanes. I don't know precisely which is better, but I usually choose to not use the protected lanes due to issues at intersections.
- CydeWeys 8y ago
  We have intersections like this in NYC. Look at 8th and 9th Avenues in Chelsea for one example. There are separate phases for bikes going straight and vehicles turning left across them.
- celestialjeu 8y ago
  We also have a few of these kinds of lanes in Austin. There are a few downtown and a few in East Austin.
  - btrettel 8y ago
    Where specifically? I'm not aware of bike lanes that have a special light for vehicles turning across the bike lane in Austin.
- fooblitzky 8y ago
  Seattle also has pretty good signage for their (very limited) protected bike lanes - typically a green-painted turning lane, with yield markings and signs. I still see drivers ignoring them from time to time - I think Mad-Eye Moody's mantra is a good one to keep in mind when riding a bike: "Constant Vigilance!".
u801e 8y ago
> If there are problems at intersections, that means that the bike lanes aren't protected enough Unless you design the intersections properly, then you're never going to achieve that protection. The best way to design them would be to follow how limited access highways/motorways interact with surface streets. In other words, they use interchanges.

btrettel 8y ago

I'm not sure there's much clear data on this. I have plenty of anecdotes from myself and other cyclists, however. Here's what is clear: Many cyclists worry about getting rear-ended, which presumably is a major part of what bike lanes are supposed to eliminate, but those sorts of crashes are rare: http://bicyclesafe.com/#rearend2 http://bicyclesafe.com/#rearend2 I can recall a pro-bike-lane advocacy organization had some different data that said being rear-ended is actually common, but that seems very discordant with the remainder of the data, and they seem hardly unbiased. (The webmaster of the site I linked to seems neutral on bike lanes.) The main risks come from intersections, and most bike lanes, even protected ones, don't address that. My concern is that bike lanes may give inexperienced cyclists a false sense of security. These problems are relatively easily avoided if one is aware of them. See this website to learn about how to avoid the most common types of bike crashes: http://bicyclesafe.com/ http://bicyclesafe.com/

JohnFen 8y ago
As a bicyclist, I can tell you what my greatest fear is: parked cars. Statistically speaking, I am far more likely to get hurt because someone opened their driver's side door without looking than from any other cause. As a result, when I ride by parked cars I make sure that I'm at least a car-door-length away from them when at all possible.

acomjean 8y ago

I live in Cambridge and agree with the reasoning as a driver and a cyclist. They put a bike lane inside the car parking area along the main drag (Cambridge street) i live on. It’s hard as a driver to make sure the lane is clear before turning, and when cycling through you still have to be careful and look before crossing the side streets. It’s still better and it’s been a year since I saw a bicyclist and a driver have words when the car failed to yield.

z2 8y ago

Ignorance of rules seem to be part of the issue. Using bike lanes (in Cambridge!), I've had turning drivers honk or yell nasty things at intersections as I went straight through, not knowing they are required to yield. Drivers are trained to be forgiving to pedestrians and the crazy jay-walking that happens in Boston, but still treat bikes like aberrations. I drive as well, and admit it felt very unnatural at first at check behind me for bikes when turning right.