4 ms·

The Nordic countries, New Zealand, Switzerland and Singapore are perceived as least corrupt by experts and in opinion polls. Do the citizens agree?

by freyir 8y ago

pjc50 8y ago
Norway is doing pretty well for a country with such a large sovereign wealth fund; most places would have had it stolen by now. It seems they just have the ordinary run of scandals: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-45173500 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-45173500
- mullen 8y ago
  I love Norwegian political scandals. Compared to American scandals, they are just nothing but people are held accountable anyways. I would love to see some American politicians career ended because they took their phone to a country they should not have.
  - pjc50 8y ago
    If a married US Democrat took their secret Iranian girlfriend to Iran with their government phone the scandal would last about a decade.
    - mullen 8y ago
      Only if he was Black.
      - markdown 8y ago
        Or democrat
- atombender 8y ago
  It's worth noting that while the wealth fund is enormous, it is also being spent [1] to cover budget deficits. (More specifically, the returns are being spent.) The government has historically tried to avoid doing so, but had to dip into the funds in 2016–2018. The rules around spending was formalized in 2001 [2], but the extent to which Norway was dipping into the funds has been controversial the last few years, with economists warning that it puts the country at risk in a future economic downturn. Norway's wealth fund is actually codified as law, which makes it difficult for a future government to "steal" it. [1] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-05-02/norway-stops-withdrawals-from-its-1-trillion-wealth-fund https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-05-02/norway-st... [2] https://www.regjeringen.no/no/tema/okonomi-og-budsjett/norsk_okonomi/bruk-av-oljepenger-/id449281/ https://www.regjeringen.no/no/tema/okonomi-og-budsjett/norsk...
interfixus 8y ago
I'm Danish. Prime minister is a drunken buffoon with no apparent shred of personal integrity, and generally I hold all politicians to be only in it for the perks and the power and the sex, but no, I wouldn't call our government corrupt, just institutionally inept, because politicians are not in the business of reasoning, and the administrative apparatus is Pournelle's iron law run amok. We simply don't do corrupt to any significant degree. Probably the niftiest social trick the Scandinavian societies ever evolved. Come to think of it, I was offered a bribe today, just a few hours ago. Turned it down without even thinking.
- p1esk 8y ago
  The fact that you were offered a bribe today, and it does not seem like a big deal to you, makes your argument somewhat weaker.
shafyy 8y ago
I'm Swiss and agree.
meshenna 8y ago
I'm Finnish. Almost everyone I know has lost all confidence in the political system years ago.
- emilfihlman 8y ago
  Same, it's pretty jarring. This is extremely dangerous to our democracy.
- freyir 8y ago
  What has caused that? What isn’t working?
  - meshenna 8y ago
    This is anecdotal, but I think the common perception is that voting just doesn't matter - politicians make promises to get votes and don't follow through after the elections. And it's the same politicians cycling in and out, year after year. Clearly people are voting for them, but just as clearly there is a large portion of the population that feels like their concerns aren't being addressed. What's interesting is that the people I know personally who've more or less given up on politics can't be clearly identified as belonging to a specific demographic. Some of them are students, some are male knowledge workers in their 20's and 30's, some are female medical professionals and administrators in their 50's and 60's. My father, who is an academic, has the most faith in the political process among the people I know.
yitchelle 8y ago
One of my Singaporean friends mentioned that the population is quite content with their government, they are enjoying the countries prosperity and the country is peaceful. He said, "Why change a working system?"
yakshaving_jgt 8y ago
I lived long enough in Sweden to become a citizen, and I believe the government and justice system are not only corrupt, but also morally bankrupt. Sweden does basically nothing when a person with a certain background rapes a child. Wouldn’t happen in Poland! For the downvoters: Explain this http://www.friatider.se/f-rvaltningsr-tt-kallar-14-rig-syrisk-flicka-br-dmogen http://www.friatider.se/f-rvaltningsr-tt-kallar-14-rig-syris...

The Nordic countries, New Zealand, Switzerland and Singapore are perceived as least corrupt by experts and in opinion polls. Do the citizens agree?

by freyir 8y ago

The Nordic countries, New Zealand, Switzerland and Singapore are perceived as least corrupt by experts and in opinion polls. Do the citizens agree?

pjc50 8y ago

Norway is doing pretty well for a country with such a large sovereign wealth fund; most places would have had it stolen by now. It seems they just have the ordinary run of scandals: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-45173500 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-45173500

mullen 8y ago
I love Norwegian political scandals. Compared to American scandals, they are just nothing but people are held accountable anyways. I would love to see some American politicians career ended because they took their phone to a country they should not have.
- pjc50 8y ago
  If a married US Democrat took their secret Iranian girlfriend to Iran with their government phone the scandal would last about a decade.
  - mullen 8y ago
    Only if he was Black.
    - markdown 8y ago
      Or democrat
atombender 8y ago
It's worth noting that while the wealth fund is enormous, it is also being spent [1] to cover budget deficits. (More specifically, the returns are being spent.) The government has historically tried to avoid doing so, but had to dip into the funds in 2016–2018. The rules around spending was formalized in 2001 [2], but the extent to which Norway was dipping into the funds has been controversial the last few years, with economists warning that it puts the country at risk in a future economic downturn. Norway's wealth fund is actually codified as law, which makes it difficult for a future government to "steal" it. [1] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-05-02/norway-stops-withdrawals-from-its-1-trillion-wealth-fund https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-05-02/norway-st... [2] https://www.regjeringen.no/no/tema/okonomi-og-budsjett/norsk_okonomi/bruk-av-oljepenger-/id449281/ https://www.regjeringen.no/no/tema/okonomi-og-budsjett/norsk...

interfixus 8y ago

I'm Danish. Prime minister is a drunken buffoon with no apparent shred of personal integrity, and generally I hold all politicians to be only in it for the perks and the power and the sex, but no, I wouldn't call our government corrupt, just institutionally inept, because politicians are not in the business of reasoning, and the administrative apparatus is Pournelle's iron law run amok. We simply don't do corrupt to any significant degree. Probably the niftiest social trick the Scandinavian societies ever evolved. Come to think of it, I was offered a bribe today, just a few hours ago. Turned it down without even thinking.

p1esk 8y ago
The fact that you were offered a bribe today, and it does not seem like a big deal to you, makes your argument somewhat weaker.

shafyy 8y ago

I'm Swiss and agree.

meshenna 8y ago

I'm Finnish. Almost everyone I know has lost all confidence in the political system years ago.

emilfihlman 8y ago
Same, it's pretty jarring. This is extremely dangerous to our democracy.
freyir 8y ago
What has caused that? What isn’t working?
- meshenna 8y ago
  This is anecdotal, but I think the common perception is that voting just doesn't matter - politicians make promises to get votes and don't follow through after the elections. And it's the same politicians cycling in and out, year after year. Clearly people are voting for them, but just as clearly there is a large portion of the population that feels like their concerns aren't being addressed. What's interesting is that the people I know personally who've more or less given up on politics can't be clearly identified as belonging to a specific demographic. Some of them are students, some are male knowledge workers in their 20's and 30's, some are female medical professionals and administrators in their 50's and 60's. My father, who is an academic, has the most faith in the political process among the people I know.

yitchelle 8y ago

One of my Singaporean friends mentioned that the population is quite content with their government, they are enjoying the countries prosperity and the country is peaceful. He said, "Why change a working system?"

yakshaving_jgt 8y ago

I lived long enough in Sweden to become a citizen, and I believe the government and justice system are not only corrupt, but also morally bankrupt. Sweden does basically nothing when a person with a certain background rapes a child. Wouldn’t happen in Poland! For the downvoters: Explain this http://www.friatider.se/f-rvaltningsr-tt-kallar-14-rig-syrisk-flicka-br-dmogen http://www.friatider.se/f-rvaltningsr-tt-kallar-14-rig-syris...