4 ms·

For some reason I'm surprised we've had so many issues with Wi-Fi security. I don't know if it was addressed in WPA3 (or if it would be addressed there), but m

For some reason I'm surprised we've had so many issues with Wi-Fi security. I don't know if it was addressed in WPA3 (or if it would be addressed there), but my understanding is that a good chunk of the protocol isn't authenticated at all, such as the de-auth packets. In a world with growing HTTPS support, OpenVPN, WireGuard, etc. and we can't secure a wifi network with a shared key?

Hikikomori 8y ago
You get protected management frames with 802.11w, WPA3 has it by default. Vendor support for it, in my experience, has been pretty bad however.
- simongr3dal 8y ago
  I know that the 802.11 means it's a standard for a wireless communication protocol, but I'm only familiar with 802.11b/a/g/n/ac (because they are on the admin page of my router). How do I now whether my WiFi supports 802.11w or any of the other countless 802.x family of standards that would be nice to have? Are there any good overviews to these things?
  - zamadatix 8y ago
    You can search for "MFP", "PMF", "Management Frame Protection", or "Protected Management Frames" in your Wi-Fi router's settings. Second best way is to look up the chipset in your router online. Going forward anything you buy with WPA3 will support this feature though as it is a requirement to be certified now.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - Hikikomori 8y ago
    You read the specs or manual for your access point/router. You could also look at beacons and your association request in wireshark, the AP will advertise what it supports. I don't think you'll find these features in consumer equipment, so your best bet is wpa3.
uuddlrlrbas 8y ago
The reason we have had so many problems is because these "standards" are not vetted by third-parties and therefore not allowed to test the security of these standards. The Alliance is a closed members-only committee, so yeah I don't doubt we will keep seeing these issues crop up.
- zamadatix 8y ago
  I'm not going to get into the ideological debate of if the standards process is open enough or not but let me pose this: Is it not more likely the fact WPA2 was ratified in 2004 that it continues to be of questionable security to utilize in 2019?
  - penagwin 8y ago
    I mean AES was established in 2001, and that's obviously still considered secure.
    - zaroth 8y ago
      Primitives vs Protocols. Encryption primitives rarely fail. The protocols build on top of them seem to consistently fail.
      - benchaney 8y ago
        There is no inherent reason that this is true, other than the fact that in order for primitives to be widely use they go through a open vetting process.
      - hackdown 8y ago
        The principle, the theory is always good. The protocols are implementations, and often implementations are badly done. See with all versions of SSL/TLS prior to TLS 1.3
  - benchaney 8y ago
    No, because: 1. WPA3, which has only recently been created, is riddled with issues. 2. Many things much older than WPA2 are still used today without major issues e.g. AES and RSA. The idea that standards processes aught to be open is not a ideological debate anymore. At this point it is a simple truth backed by overwhelming empirical evidence.

Hikikomori 8y ago

You get protected management frames with 802.11w, WPA3 has it by default. Vendor support for it, in my experience, has been pretty bad however.

simongr3dal 8y ago
I know that the 802.11 means it's a standard for a wireless communication protocol, but I'm only familiar with 802.11b/a/g/n/ac (because they are on the admin page of my router). How do I now whether my WiFi supports 802.11w or any of the other countless 802.x family of standards that would be nice to have? Are there any good overviews to these things?
- zamadatix 8y ago
  You can search for "MFP", "PMF", "Management Frame Protection", or "Protected Management Frames" in your Wi-Fi router's settings. Second best way is to look up the chipset in your router online. Going forward anything you buy with WPA3 will support this feature though as it is a requirement to be certified now.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- Hikikomori 8y ago
  You read the specs or manual for your access point/router. You could also look at beacons and your association request in wireshark, the AP will advertise what it supports. I don't think you'll find these features in consumer equipment, so your best bet is wpa3.

uuddlrlrbas 8y ago

The reason we have had so many problems is because these "standards" are not vetted by third-parties and therefore not allowed to test the security of these standards. The Alliance is a closed members-only committee, so yeah I don't doubt we will keep seeing these issues crop up.

zamadatix 8y ago
I'm not going to get into the ideological debate of if the standards process is open enough or not but let me pose this: Is it not more likely the fact WPA2 was ratified in 2004 that it continues to be of questionable security to utilize in 2019?
- penagwin 8y ago
  I mean AES was established in 2001, and that's obviously still considered secure.
  - zaroth 8y ago
    Primitives vs Protocols. Encryption primitives rarely fail. The protocols build on top of them seem to consistently fail.
    - benchaney 8y ago
      There is no inherent reason that this is true, other than the fact that in order for primitives to be widely use they go through a open vetting process.
    - hackdown 8y ago
      The principle, the theory is always good. The protocols are implementations, and often implementations are badly done. See with all versions of SSL/TLS prior to TLS 1.3
- benchaney 8y ago
  No, because: 1. WPA3, which has only recently been created, is riddled with issues. 2. Many things much older than WPA2 are still used today without major issues e.g. AES and RSA. The idea that standards processes aught to be open is not a ideological debate anymore. At this point it is a simple truth backed by overwhelming empirical evidence.