4 ms·

The second statement doesn't follow from the first. He was both wanted for questioning in a rape investigation _and_ wanted for extradition to the US. You can

The second statement doesn't follow from the first. He was both wanted for questioning in a rape investigation _and_ wanted for extradition to the US. You can both want him to face charges for rape, and also not want him to be extradited to the US. The lack of regard for a rape case against him (mostly by male commenters, it has to be said) is very troubling.

rndgermandude 8y ago
You mean the "he removed his condom during consensual intercourse without her knowing or him telling her" rape...
- Tomte 8y ago
  Yes, that's rape in Sweden, and some other sex crime in all other civilized countries. Dismissing this act reflects poorly upon you, though.
  - rndgermandude 8y ago
    I am not dismissing it, it is still a crime, but I won't consider it rape, same as I will not consider unwanted groping to be rape but still criminal behavior. Also, it was investigated twice, charges dropped twice. It was taken seriously.
    - ceejayoz 8y ago
      If someone consents to sex with specific requirements like "you must wear a condom", and they secretly violate those requirements, how is that not non-consensual?
      - rndgermandude 8y ago
        It is a consent issue, it is not rape. To not repeat myself (again): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19632833 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19632833
        Tomte 8y ago
        "Consent issues" are rape. That's pretty much non-controversial, outside the incel rape fantasy boards.
        rndgermandude 8y ago
        > "Consent issues" are rape. That's pretty much non-controversial, outside the incel rape fantasy boards. Implying I am an incel with rape fantasies? That's just the lowest form of name-calling.
        ceejayoz 8y ago
        Rape is non-consensual sex. Violence is not required - sex with a sleeping person, for example, or sex with a toddler.
        rndgermandude 8y ago
        This is a false analogy. The sex was consensual. Not even the alleged victim said it was not. On the other hand, abusing an immature person (such as a toddler) or an incapacitated person is a form of violence, and there is clearly no consent whatsoever. Some other examples where stuff gets murky: Let's say I have HIV, but "forget" to mention it, and thus get consent by deceit. Not rape in my opinion. California recently turned it from a felony to a misdemeanor if you expose somebody with the intent to transmit your disease[1]. Let's say I am an Arab, and tell my Jewish partner I am actually Jewish. Not rape in my opinion. Doesn't even raise to the level of criminality in my opinion. Yet some Israeli court thought otherwise and ruled it was rape[2]. What about a woman poking holes into condoms, or "forgetting" to take the pill? The man did not consent either, same as Assange's alleged victim consented to condom-less sex (or if Assange had poked holes). Did she rape him? I say that's abhorrent behavior still, but it is not rape. Now I fully acknowledge that the condom deceit has wider consequences than lying about your age or ethnicity or religious affiliation. At the very least it poses the other party at risk of STDs and unwanted pregnancies. Unwanted pregnancies in particular are an issue in the realm of reproductive coercion. Therefore I am fully on board to punish such things by the might of the law. it's just not rape, same as beating up somebody is not murder. [1] https://edition.cnn.com/2017/10/07/health/california-hiv-bill-signed/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2017/10/07/health/california-hiv-bil... [2] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-11329429 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-11329429 PS: If I sold you a minivan, and promised it had protective undercoating when it didn't, then it would be fraud, not theft.
  - andersonvieira 8y ago
    Honest question, as I'm not familiar with swedish law. If a man consents to have sex with a woman that claims to be taking birth control pills and later he finds out she really wasn't, can she be accused of rape?
    - Tomte 8y ago
      Not familiar, either, but probably not. The issue isn't birth control (alone), but foremost corporeal autonomy (the woman didn't want him to have "naked" sex, while in your example the man wanted to) and to a lesser extent the health risk. So not taking the pill is not even close to the question of sleeping without a condom.
      - spork12 8y ago
        lol, my mom did this to my dad so he would marry her
- spork12 8y ago
  It's times like this when we need the "Love Contract" from Chapelle's show.
house9-2 8y ago
I think what you are saying is he should have been extradited to Sweden not the US? Apparently those charges were dropped? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assange_v_Swedish_Prosecution_Authority https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assange_v_Swedish_Prosecution_... > The investigation into the allegation of rape, as of 19 May 2017, has been dropped by Swedish authorities.
- scotchmi_st 8y ago
  It wasn't dropped in the sense that the prosecutors dropped their charges. It was dropped in the sense that the case was put in a dormant state. It can be re-opened, until August 2020 I believe.
- ionised 8y ago
  Not just that, but the original accuser dropped her charges long before the Swedish authorities gave up.

rndgermandude 8y ago

You mean the "he removed his condom during consensual intercourse without her knowing or him telling her" rape...

Tomte 8y ago
Yes, that's rape in Sweden, and some other sex crime in all other civilized countries. Dismissing this act reflects poorly upon you, though.
- rndgermandude 8y ago
  I am not dismissing it, it is still a crime, but I won't consider it rape, same as I will not consider unwanted groping to be rape but still criminal behavior. Also, it was investigated twice, charges dropped twice. It was taken seriously.
  - ceejayoz 8y ago
    If someone consents to sex with specific requirements like "you must wear a condom", and they secretly violate those requirements, how is that not non-consensual?
    - rndgermandude 8y ago
      It is a consent issue, it is not rape. To not repeat myself (again): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19632833 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19632833
      - Tomte 8y ago
        "Consent issues" are rape. That's pretty much non-controversial, outside the incel rape fantasy boards.
      - rndgermandude 8y ago
        > "Consent issues" are rape. That's pretty much non-controversial, outside the incel rape fantasy boards. Implying I am an incel with rape fantasies? That's just the lowest form of name-calling.
      - ceejayoz 8y ago
        Rape is non-consensual sex. Violence is not required - sex with a sleeping person, for example, or sex with a toddler.
        rndgermandude 8y ago
        This is a false analogy. The sex was consensual. Not even the alleged victim said it was not. On the other hand, abusing an immature person (such as a toddler) or an incapacitated person is a form of violence, and there is clearly no consent whatsoever. Some other examples where stuff gets murky: Let's say I have HIV, but "forget" to mention it, and thus get consent by deceit. Not rape in my opinion. California recently turned it from a felony to a misdemeanor if you expose somebody with the intent to transmit your disease[1]. Let's say I am an Arab, and tell my Jewish partner I am actually Jewish. Not rape in my opinion. Doesn't even raise to the level of criminality in my opinion. Yet some Israeli court thought otherwise and ruled it was rape[2]. What about a woman poking holes into condoms, or "forgetting" to take the pill? The man did not consent either, same as Assange's alleged victim consented to condom-less sex (or if Assange had poked holes). Did she rape him? I say that's abhorrent behavior still, but it is not rape. Now I fully acknowledge that the condom deceit has wider consequences than lying about your age or ethnicity or religious affiliation. At the very least it poses the other party at risk of STDs and unwanted pregnancies. Unwanted pregnancies in particular are an issue in the realm of reproductive coercion. Therefore I am fully on board to punish such things by the might of the law. it's just not rape, same as beating up somebody is not murder. [1] https://edition.cnn.com/2017/10/07/health/california-hiv-bill-signed/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2017/10/07/health/california-hiv-bil... [2] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-11329429 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-11329429 PS: If I sold you a minivan, and promised it had protective undercoating when it didn't, then it would be fraud, not theft.
- andersonvieira 8y ago
  Honest question, as I'm not familiar with swedish law. If a man consents to have sex with a woman that claims to be taking birth control pills and later he finds out she really wasn't, can she be accused of rape?
  - Tomte 8y ago
    Not familiar, either, but probably not. The issue isn't birth control (alone), but foremost corporeal autonomy (the woman didn't want him to have "naked" sex, while in your example the man wanted to) and to a lesser extent the health risk. So not taking the pill is not even close to the question of sleeping without a condom.
    - spork12 8y ago
      lol, my mom did this to my dad so he would marry her
spork12 8y ago
It's times like this when we need the "Love Contract" from Chapelle's show.

house9-2 8y ago

I think what you are saying is he should have been extradited to Sweden not the US? Apparently those charges were dropped? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assange_v_Swedish_Prosecution_Authority https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assange_v_Swedish_Prosecution_... > The investigation into the allegation of rape, as of 19 May 2017, has been dropped by Swedish authorities.

scotchmi_st 8y ago
It wasn't dropped in the sense that the prosecutors dropped their charges. It was dropped in the sense that the case was put in a dormant state. It can be re-opened, until August 2020 I believe.
ionised 8y ago
Not just that, but the original accuser dropped her charges long before the Swedish authorities gave up.