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”Imagine if Toyota bought Tesla. That may be the best outcome possible” Culturally it may not be a good fit. Toyota, now days, is very conservative and risk-av

”Imagine if Toyota bought Tesla. That may be the best outcome possible” Culturally it may not be a good fit. Toyota, now days, is very conservative and risk-averse, and a Tesla under Toyota ownership may not have the freedom it needs to continue the kind of moon-shot innovation and investment that has got it where it is now. From Toyota’s perspective, there’s nothing to stop them building high quality EVs in high volume and competing with Tesla. They don’t need to buy Tesla to do that.

nihonde 8y ago
Toyota is the tortoise and Tesla is the hare. Tesla’s lasting contribution will be shifting US consumer sentiment on electric vehicles. Previously, Americans were quick to mock electric vehicles and showed zero interest in the infrastructure investments required to make them work. Of course companies like Toyota have been burned many times by capricious foreign markets that are susceptible to jingoism and manipulation by oil concerns, etc. They took a wait-and-see approach. Once the market appetite is proven, they move with alacrity and eat this segment alive. I’m posting this now so I can say “told you so” in three years.
- mikekchar 8y ago
  Toyota will be shipping their first EVs for the 2020 market year (so I guess in the fall of this year if I understand such things correctly). It will be very interesting to see what happens. In Japan Nissan and Mitsubishi completely own the EV market (I see them frequently now and even own a Leaf myself). I've never seen any other make of EV (although I'm absolutely sure they exist and if I wasn't in the middle of the countryside would probably run into them occasionally). My interest in this story is actually Panasonic because I'm curious about how aggressively they will pursue the Japanese EV market. Nissan just sold their battery making division and apparently had talks with Panasonic, but those apparently broke down. I have no idea who will build Toyota's batteries (and probably every other Japanese car maker as they all went in together into a consortium for building EVs). Mitsubishi apparently use GS Yuasa, which is a fairly new Japanese company (15 years old) that was created from a group of companies that used to make lead acid batteries. If Panasonic thinks that Tesla isn't going to perform, they may need to hustle to stay relevant.
  - Theodores 8y ago
    Yuasa were making rechargeable AA batteries many decades ago, I can remember them in the 1980's in the UK or whenever it was that the Sony Walkman was king as they were invariably in the charger. Maybe they didn't make it to the US. I don't believe my personal recollections are that reliable, but I am pretty sure that Yuasa have been going for decades and would be surprised to be considered 'fairly new'.
    - vidarh 8y ago
      GS Yuasa is the product of a merger. The merged company is fairly new (2004), but you're right - GS and Yuasa were formed in 1904 and 1909 respectively, and have been manufacturing automotive batteries since a century ago.
  - clouddrover 8y ago
    > I have no idea who will build Toyota's batteries Toyota and Panasonic recently announced a joint venture on EV battery production: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-toyota-panasonic-idUSKCN1PE05R https://www.reuters.com/article/us-toyota-panasonic-idUSKCN1...
  - nihonde 8y ago
    What’s also important is how extensive the EV charging network is in Japan. The dealers all seem to have chargers, as do malls like Aeon, and some gas stations and conbini. I assume all the michieki have them too. I have a Suzuki Lapin (80mpg!!), so I don’t pay enough attention. What’s your experience with charging on the go?
    - SECProto 8y ago
      What gets me about Japan is how practical electric cars would be there. I lived in Hokkaido, and, in my experience: * It was quite unusual for anyone to drive further than 300km in a day, * The cold weather rarely got too far below zero so the range reduction from cold weather would be much smaller, * On-street parking isn't a thing so charging stations would be easier to put in. They do great with small, fuel efficient cars (like your Lapin!), and the Leaf is good, but I'm left wondering why EVs haven't been as big as they could be (edited for formatting)
hopler 8y ago
Toyota claims that there is no market for high volume non-hybdrid EV. https://insideevs.com/toyota-no-ev-because-it-wont-sell/ https://insideevs.com/toyota-no-ev-because-it-wont-sell/
- mikekchar 8y ago
  I don't have a link, but at least in Japan, my understanding is that Toyota will release their first non-hybrid EV for 2020. I'll have to scrounge around to see if I can find something to verify that...
- threeseed 8y ago
  In the US at this point in time. And they are probably right that at this point they are more for early adopters. But in the coming few years that will inevitably change.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

nihonde 8y ago

Toyota is the tortoise and Tesla is the hare. Tesla’s lasting contribution will be shifting US consumer sentiment on electric vehicles. Previously, Americans were quick to mock electric vehicles and showed zero interest in the infrastructure investments required to make them work. Of course companies like Toyota have been burned many times by capricious foreign markets that are susceptible to jingoism and manipulation by oil concerns, etc. They took a wait-and-see approach. Once the market appetite is proven, they move with alacrity and eat this segment alive. I’m posting this now so I can say “told you so” in three years.

mikekchar 8y ago
Toyota will be shipping their first EVs for the 2020 market year (so I guess in the fall of this year if I understand such things correctly). It will be very interesting to see what happens. In Japan Nissan and Mitsubishi completely own the EV market (I see them frequently now and even own a Leaf myself). I've never seen any other make of EV (although I'm absolutely sure they exist and if I wasn't in the middle of the countryside would probably run into them occasionally). My interest in this story is actually Panasonic because I'm curious about how aggressively they will pursue the Japanese EV market. Nissan just sold their battery making division and apparently had talks with Panasonic, but those apparently broke down. I have no idea who will build Toyota's batteries (and probably every other Japanese car maker as they all went in together into a consortium for building EVs). Mitsubishi apparently use GS Yuasa, which is a fairly new Japanese company (15 years old) that was created from a group of companies that used to make lead acid batteries. If Panasonic thinks that Tesla isn't going to perform, they may need to hustle to stay relevant.
- Theodores 8y ago
  Yuasa were making rechargeable AA batteries many decades ago, I can remember them in the 1980's in the UK or whenever it was that the Sony Walkman was king as they were invariably in the charger. Maybe they didn't make it to the US. I don't believe my personal recollections are that reliable, but I am pretty sure that Yuasa have been going for decades and would be surprised to be considered 'fairly new'.
  - vidarh 8y ago
    GS Yuasa is the product of a merger. The merged company is fairly new (2004), but you're right - GS and Yuasa were formed in 1904 and 1909 respectively, and have been manufacturing automotive batteries since a century ago.
- clouddrover 8y ago
  > I have no idea who will build Toyota's batteries Toyota and Panasonic recently announced a joint venture on EV battery production: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-toyota-panasonic-idUSKCN1PE05R https://www.reuters.com/article/us-toyota-panasonic-idUSKCN1...
- nihonde 8y ago
  What’s also important is how extensive the EV charging network is in Japan. The dealers all seem to have chargers, as do malls like Aeon, and some gas stations and conbini. I assume all the michieki have them too. I have a Suzuki Lapin (80mpg!!), so I don’t pay enough attention. What’s your experience with charging on the go?
  - SECProto 8y ago
    What gets me about Japan is how practical electric cars would be there. I lived in Hokkaido, and, in my experience: * It was quite unusual for anyone to drive further than 300km in a day, * The cold weather rarely got too far below zero so the range reduction from cold weather would be much smaller, * On-street parking isn't a thing so charging stations would be easier to put in. They do great with small, fuel efficient cars (like your Lapin!), and the Leaf is good, but I'm left wondering why EVs haven't been as big as they could be (edited for formatting)

hopler 8y ago

Toyota claims that there is no market for high volume non-hybdrid EV. https://insideevs.com/toyota-no-ev-because-it-wont-sell/ https://insideevs.com/toyota-no-ev-because-it-wont-sell/

mikekchar 8y ago
I don't have a link, but at least in Japan, my understanding is that Toyota will release their first non-hybrid EV for 2020. I'll have to scrounge around to see if I can find something to verify that...
threeseed 8y ago
In the US at this point in time. And they are probably right that at this point they are more for early adopters. But in the coming few years that will inevitably change.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]