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As a physicist by training that has been working as a data scientist and believing that the data science bubble will burst sooner rather than later, are these c

As a physicist by training that has been working as a data scientist and believing that the data science bubble will burst sooner rather than later, are these certifications a good path to help change course and keep myself relevant?

reacharavindh 7y ago
I'm curious to hear others' comments on this as well. Let me share my thoughts. I'm a sysadmin for a HPC cluster. I do not have any of these certs. I think my day job involves a lot of diagnosing issues which involves detailed understanding of how the system works rather than actually developing any parts of that system. A second fun part of this job is when designing infrastructure for use by others. To take into consideration all that can go wrong, performance characteristics of hardware, software, and workload and trade one off for other can be really challenging and fun if you're into that sort of a thing. I'm not sure the RedHat certs will help you all the way through, although they might be a good starter in this regard. A lot is obtained by getting hands dirty and learning by making mistakes. If you're into managing systems and building/engineering infrastructure, I'd wholeheartedly recommend spending time with small scale infrastructure in a "homelab" setting or if you can afford $$ with VMs in the cloud even. Cheers!
- pnutjam 7y ago
  I don't have any certs and I'm a senior Linux admin. I like the Suse track. I would persue them before RH, https://training.suse.com/certification/ https://training.suse.com/certification/
linuxftw 7y ago
They're a good starting point. The Linux side is very broad and there's high demand.
throwawaymanbot 7y ago
The RHCE is well respected, and will do you no harm. If your resume is Linux light, then you can at least have that on it.
BossingAround 7y ago
They definitely are a really good starting point... Passing this exam (which is positioned as 'intermediate/advanced linux knowledge' exam) will let the possible employers know you've got potential, and that you're not a complete newbie wrt Linux. That said, it'll get you an interview, not a job.
couterSpell 7y ago
I find certifications good for really three things: 1.) Having a structured curriculum to learn something new. All my tech skills are self-taught, and it's useful to have a structured learning path. 2.) Validating your skills, especially when you're changing careers. I went from working in call centers to AWS Systems Architect/Linux SysAdmin by virtue of a couple of certs. 3.) Sometimes employers require certain certifications as a condition of employment (or continued employment). This one can be a bit sticky, though. Make sure those certifications make sense for the role. I can't tell you how many job listings I see wanting CompTIA A+. Unless you're applying to work for Geek Squad, you probably don't need an A+ cert (which asks things like 'What is RAM'? 'What is Bluray?'). If you want to get into Linux, getting a couple of certs won't hurt. Red Hat's certs are probably the most well-respected, but of course are centered around Red Hat Enterprise Linux (and by extension CentOS). If you want a good cert path for Debian, go with the Linux Foundation certs. Linux Foundation's certs are less well-known, but also practical exams. I would avoid LPIC and CompTIA Linux+ certs (NOTE: I am Linux+ and LPIC-1 certified). They are multiple choice exams and really emphasize based on rote memorization of command flags, which really isn't useful to be an actual Linux SysAdmin. Then's the last time you ran into a bzip2 archive? I can't remember the last time I did, but I still remember that tar xjf will unzip one. But, of course, if I did run into a bzip2 in the wild, I can just as easily read the tar man page. Thanks LPIC!
- linuxftw 7y ago
  In the latest versions of tar, no need to specify compression type if it has a valid extension.
  - couterSpell 7y ago
    Interesting. Then again, that shows another problem with the LPIC exams: They're really out of date.
- k__ 7y ago
  This. There are some good certs, like AWS and RHCE and some really crappy ones. Talk to people before doing them to get a feeling if they're worth it.
lowken10 7y ago
I don't see the data science bubble bursting. Data is the fuel of the 21st century economy and I don't see that changing.
- weirdtunguska 7y ago
  From a data scientist that has been working as an architect for data systems for some time now, the way that data science was done 2 years ago changed considerably to how we do data science and design data systems geared to machine learning today. Data can be the "fuel" the economy, but the extreme demand for data scientists that need to know a huge number of things, from statistics do machine learning to programming, databases and so on, is reducing, and more specialized roles, like machine learning engineer, is growing. That´s the reason for my comment: the bubble of data scientist highly skilled over a vast number of areas is dying, and data scientists need to start to specialize to survive.
robbyt 7y ago
I do not agree that data science is a bubble. However, I think everyone who uses Linux professionally would benefit from training, (and the redhat training/certification is quite good).
zantana 7y ago
For what its worth I would, as a system administrator, I would say falling back to infrastructure administration on the level that the RHCE helps with, won't keep you relevant, unless you're moving into an area which specifically requires it. I go my RHCE 5 years ago and it was a great primer on how Linux systems run and I recommend it to anyone interested in modern Linux. It will give you many insights which will help you in the future in understanding how Linux works. I was moving over from Windows administration and it was a godsend. That said this lower level of administration is becoming harder to break into, with automation, containers, ease of use improvements and the cloud, the need for the properly managed system is dwindling. I'm sure there will be a need for a long time, but they generally won't be good jobs. If you have some technical proficiency already I would say there are better places to improve your prospects. Also the test is hard to prepare for so there is a time commitment and it does expire (I'm no longer an RHCE :() so there is that. I hope that helps.
- uneasy-sausage 7y ago
  I was hoping you could expand on your statement of prospects for those with technical proficiency? What are your thoughts on proper skill investment if some of the skills associated with formal RHCE seem to be decreased.
  - zantana 7y ago
    My feeling is that greater proficiency in how code, leveraging the services can serve perspective employers. It's vague and I'm not sure if it can be quantified as easily as the RHCE, so let me give you an example. With the RHCE you learn about configuring Linux systems. That is building single systems from scratch, configuring firewalls, service files, security configuration and so on. The old format when I took it was the RHCSA would teach you about the system through boot, and the RHCE would teach about how to configure the services, at least that's how one of my instructors put it. In terms of real world work, at most companies most of this work/process is done in the beginning of their technical life (starting the company or new endeavor) and once you have a method of building servers, and working configurations you don't revisit these concepts as much. Maybe that is what the Ansible cert is supposed to address. The hard part from an employment perspective is that this work is slowly moving away towards the cloud and all in one solutions which reduce the need for this type of administration. The big shops have large processes which likely involve solving problems on a more abstract level than what you learn with the RHCE. It's important to know for sure, but likely 95% of these problems are solved on the configuration management, cloud provisioning, or some other level. On the other extreme, the newer, smaller places aren't going to invest in building Linux servers. They are more likely to maybe have a Windows server/NAS or, more likely, all cloud services at this point. As an interviewee I have seen this where you grind through technical interviews (about an hour of lots of arcane, frequently out of date questions) and they tend to want either drones to do grunt work with little opportunity for growth, or know their exact technical stack to solve some specific problem. As an interviewer I see a lot of developer/jack of all trade types trying to sell themselves as system admins whereas its clear that they don't really know system administration. We had one candidate the other day who had worked for close to 10 years in the larger organization who didn't know what /var was. :0 There is still a role for the RHCE style engineers and I had a good time learning it, but at this point I'm not sure where that path will lead in the future. I think a better use of time would be to learn python or javacript, find a way to apply it to the area you would like to do it, get a green lawn on github, learn how to do something impressive with some public APIs. Just my 2c as a sysadmin take from it what you will.
rambojazz 7y ago
Can I ask you why it's a bubble? I don't work on "data science" but I feel like data, and in particular working with large amounts of data, is valuable.
- weirdtunguska 7y ago
  Sure. I consider that the way we do data science and hire data scientists is a bubble because it´s unsusteinable and business are asking more and more about the returns of the large, expensive investments on "artificial intelligence". No doubt that working with data is getting more and more valuable, but the way it is done today is changing, and fast.

reacharavindh 7y ago

I'm curious to hear others' comments on this as well. Let me share my thoughts. I'm a sysadmin for a HPC cluster. I do not have any of these certs. I think my day job involves a lot of diagnosing issues which involves detailed understanding of how the system works rather than actually developing any parts of that system. A second fun part of this job is when designing infrastructure for use by others. To take into consideration all that can go wrong, performance characteristics of hardware, software, and workload and trade one off for other can be really challenging and fun if you're into that sort of a thing. I'm not sure the RedHat certs will help you all the way through, although they might be a good starter in this regard. A lot is obtained by getting hands dirty and learning by making mistakes. If you're into managing systems and building/engineering infrastructure, I'd wholeheartedly recommend spending time with small scale infrastructure in a "homelab" setting or if you can afford $$ with VMs in the cloud even. Cheers!

pnutjam 7y ago
I don't have any certs and I'm a senior Linux admin. I like the Suse track. I would persue them before RH, https://training.suse.com/certification/ https://training.suse.com/certification/

linuxftw 7y ago

They're a good starting point. The Linux side is very broad and there's high demand.

throwawaymanbot 7y ago

The RHCE is well respected, and will do you no harm. If your resume is Linux light, then you can at least have that on it.

BossingAround 7y ago

They definitely are a really good starting point... Passing this exam (which is positioned as 'intermediate/advanced linux knowledge' exam) will let the possible employers know you've got potential, and that you're not a complete newbie wrt Linux. That said, it'll get you an interview, not a job.

couterSpell 7y ago

I find certifications good for really three things: 1.) Having a structured curriculum to learn something new. All my tech skills are self-taught, and it's useful to have a structured learning path. 2.) Validating your skills, especially when you're changing careers. I went from working in call centers to AWS Systems Architect/Linux SysAdmin by virtue of a couple of certs. 3.) Sometimes employers require certain certifications as a condition of employment (or continued employment). This one can be a bit sticky, though. Make sure those certifications make sense for the role. I can't tell you how many job listings I see wanting CompTIA A+. Unless you're applying to work for Geek Squad, you probably don't need an A+ cert (which asks things like 'What is RAM'? 'What is Bluray?'). If you want to get into Linux, getting a couple of certs won't hurt. Red Hat's certs are probably the most well-respected, but of course are centered around Red Hat Enterprise Linux (and by extension CentOS). If you want a good cert path for Debian, go with the Linux Foundation certs. Linux Foundation's certs are less well-known, but also practical exams. I would avoid LPIC and CompTIA Linux+ certs (NOTE: I am Linux+ and LPIC-1 certified). They are multiple choice exams and really emphasize based on rote memorization of command flags, which really isn't useful to be an actual Linux SysAdmin. Then's the last time you ran into a bzip2 archive? I can't remember the last time I did, but I still remember that tar xjf will unzip one. But, of course, if I did run into a bzip2 in the wild, I can just as easily read the tar man page. Thanks LPIC!

linuxftw 7y ago
In the latest versions of tar, no need to specify compression type if it has a valid extension.
- couterSpell 7y ago
  Interesting. Then again, that shows another problem with the LPIC exams: They're really out of date.
k__ 7y ago
This. There are some good certs, like AWS and RHCE and some really crappy ones. Talk to people before doing them to get a feeling if they're worth it.

lowken10 7y ago

I don't see the data science bubble bursting. Data is the fuel of the 21st century economy and I don't see that changing.

weirdtunguska 7y ago
From a data scientist that has been working as an architect for data systems for some time now, the way that data science was done 2 years ago changed considerably to how we do data science and design data systems geared to machine learning today. Data can be the "fuel" the economy, but the extreme demand for data scientists that need to know a huge number of things, from statistics do machine learning to programming, databases and so on, is reducing, and more specialized roles, like machine learning engineer, is growing. That´s the reason for my comment: the bubble of data scientist highly skilled over a vast number of areas is dying, and data scientists need to start to specialize to survive.

robbyt 7y ago

I do not agree that data science is a bubble. However, I think everyone who uses Linux professionally would benefit from training, (and the redhat training/certification is quite good).

zantana 7y ago

For what its worth I would, as a system administrator, I would say falling back to infrastructure administration on the level that the RHCE helps with, won't keep you relevant, unless you're moving into an area which specifically requires it. I go my RHCE 5 years ago and it was a great primer on how Linux systems run and I recommend it to anyone interested in modern Linux. It will give you many insights which will help you in the future in understanding how Linux works. I was moving over from Windows administration and it was a godsend. That said this lower level of administration is becoming harder to break into, with automation, containers, ease of use improvements and the cloud, the need for the properly managed system is dwindling. I'm sure there will be a need for a long time, but they generally won't be good jobs. If you have some technical proficiency already I would say there are better places to improve your prospects. Also the test is hard to prepare for so there is a time commitment and it does expire (I'm no longer an RHCE :() so there is that. I hope that helps.

uneasy-sausage 7y ago
I was hoping you could expand on your statement of prospects for those with technical proficiency? What are your thoughts on proper skill investment if some of the skills associated with formal RHCE seem to be decreased.
- zantana 7y ago
  My feeling is that greater proficiency in how code, leveraging the services can serve perspective employers. It's vague and I'm not sure if it can be quantified as easily as the RHCE, so let me give you an example. With the RHCE you learn about configuring Linux systems. That is building single systems from scratch, configuring firewalls, service files, security configuration and so on. The old format when I took it was the RHCSA would teach you about the system through boot, and the RHCE would teach about how to configure the services, at least that's how one of my instructors put it. In terms of real world work, at most companies most of this work/process is done in the beginning of their technical life (starting the company or new endeavor) and once you have a method of building servers, and working configurations you don't revisit these concepts as much. Maybe that is what the Ansible cert is supposed to address. The hard part from an employment perspective is that this work is slowly moving away towards the cloud and all in one solutions which reduce the need for this type of administration. The big shops have large processes which likely involve solving problems on a more abstract level than what you learn with the RHCE. It's important to know for sure, but likely 95% of these problems are solved on the configuration management, cloud provisioning, or some other level. On the other extreme, the newer, smaller places aren't going to invest in building Linux servers. They are more likely to maybe have a Windows server/NAS or, more likely, all cloud services at this point. As an interviewee I have seen this where you grind through technical interviews (about an hour of lots of arcane, frequently out of date questions) and they tend to want either drones to do grunt work with little opportunity for growth, or know their exact technical stack to solve some specific problem. As an interviewer I see a lot of developer/jack of all trade types trying to sell themselves as system admins whereas its clear that they don't really know system administration. We had one candidate the other day who had worked for close to 10 years in the larger organization who didn't know what /var was. :0 There is still a role for the RHCE style engineers and I had a good time learning it, but at this point I'm not sure where that path will lead in the future. I think a better use of time would be to learn python or javacript, find a way to apply it to the area you would like to do it, get a green lawn on github, learn how to do something impressive with some public APIs. Just my 2c as a sysadmin take from it what you will.

rambojazz 7y ago

Can I ask you why it's a bubble? I don't work on "data science" but I feel like data, and in particular working with large amounts of data, is valuable.

weirdtunguska 7y ago
Sure. I consider that the way we do data science and hire data scientists is a bubble because it´s unsusteinable and business are asking more and more about the returns of the large, expensive investments on "artificial intelligence". No doubt that working with data is getting more and more valuable, but the way it is done today is changing, and fast.