5 ms·

I found the Swedish rape case fishy. Are there any facts (going both ways) to speak of at all?

by mikorym 8y ago

josteink 8y ago
The accuser has ties to the CIA. You don’t need to know more than that. It was all really badly staged.
- tendencydriven 8y ago
  I'd massively disagree with the statement "You don't need to know more than that.", and I'd love to see some sources to back this up. Randomly spewing "facts" with no evidence to back up your claim can be quite damaging.
  - stupidthrottle 8y ago
    This was widely reported back when the case was hot. It’s not exactly news. https://www.rawstory.com/2010/12/assange-rape-accuser-cia-ties/ https://www.rawstory.com/2010/12/assange-rape-accuser-cia-ti...
    - pmarreck 8y ago
      it’s not exactly news because it’s “rawstory” propaganda. https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/The_Raw_Story https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/The_Raw_Story
    - bjourne 8y ago
      "One accuser, Anna Ardin, may have “ties to the US-financed anti-Castro and anti-communist groups,” according to Israel Shamir and Paul Bennett, writing for CounterPunch. While in Cuba, Ardin worked with the Las damas de blanco (the Ladies in White), a feminist anti-Castro group." Israel Shamir is not only the spokesperson for Wikileaks Russia, he is also bat-shit insane. Accusing people of being CIA operatives is right up his alley.
      - matt4077 8y ago
        The linked article on Counterpunch has also been deleted.
    - matt4077 8y ago
      Seriously? Quote: "While in Cuba, Ardin worked with the Las damas de blanco (the Ladies in White), a feminist anti-Castro group. Professor Michael Seltzer pointed out that the group is led by Carlos Alberto Montaner who is reportedly connected to the CIA." That's like five degrees of Kevin Bacon...
      - icebraining 8y ago
        I can't even find any sources confirming that Carlos Alberto Montaner leads Las Damas de Blanco, including in pro-Castro sites.
      - darkpuma 8y ago
        Five degrees? I count two. Edit: That's three edges between her and the CIA, and frankly Ardin to Seltzer is one, making the count two. One to Seltzer, one to the CIA. If "reportedly" doesn't cut it for you, then you must think the CIA is the world's most incompetent intelligence agency because they evidently have connections to nobody at all!
        matt4077 8y ago
        Ardin -> Organisation -> It's boss -> CIA. 4 (+ infinity for "reportedly connected"). I'm actually assuming he's "reportedly connected" because he's the boss of an organisation whose leader is "reportedly connected".
    - chatmasta 8y ago
      > While in Cuba, Ardin worked with the Las damas de blanco (the Ladies in White), a feminist anti-Castro group. Sure, it's possible she was working for CIA. But the story is that she was volunteering with wikileaks. Based on her background, does that sound unreasonable?
- FireBeyond 8y ago
  "Nation state wants to destroy reputation of someone they claim is doing massive damage to them. Intelligence agency sanctions some character assassination, efforts to frame him for a crime." Comes up with "wake up sex without a condom for an otherwise consensual episode", and operative isn't overly motivated to pursue charges. If this is the best the CIA can muster, I don't feel outrage so much as profound sadness at the waste of our resources (leaving aside, for the sake of example, related moral or ethical questions, and merely talking abilities and logistics).
praptak 8y ago
Corroborating evidence: https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/797188 https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/797188 - "Sweden’s Serial Negligence in Prosecuting Rape Further Highlights the Politics Behind Julian Assange’s Arrest"
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
Udik 8y ago
From what I understood, Sweden has a very extensive definition of "rape". Basically someone can go to the police and say "well, in hindsight I do feel a bit raped" and that is enough. Assange's accusers hosted him at their place, had consensual sex with him, and the day after they parted ways peacefully.
- netsharc 8y ago
  That's not what I read. What I read is he removed the condom during it, and she did not know this.
- FireBeyond 8y ago
  A bit more involved than that. They or one of them had agreed to sex with the use of a condom, and realized at one point, possibly waking up, that he was not using a condom, which could be argued to be non-consensual.
  - sievebrain 8y ago
    The women in question were caught lying about the charges in various ways and destroying evidence by deleting tweets and texts. There's no reason to believe them about anything really: behind the "he said she said" nature of the condom claim, if that was the only matter under dispute they wouldn't have changed their story.

I found the Swedish rape case fishy. Are there any facts (going both ways) to speak of at all?

josteink 8y ago

The accuser has ties to the CIA. You don’t need to know more than that. It was all really badly staged.

tendencydriven 8y ago
I'd massively disagree with the statement "You don't need to know more than that.", and I'd love to see some sources to back this up. Randomly spewing "facts" with no evidence to back up your claim can be quite damaging.
- stupidthrottle 8y ago
  This was widely reported back when the case was hot. It’s not exactly news. https://www.rawstory.com/2010/12/assange-rape-accuser-cia-ties/ https://www.rawstory.com/2010/12/assange-rape-accuser-cia-ti...
  - pmarreck 8y ago
    it’s not exactly news because it’s “rawstory” propaganda. https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/The_Raw_Story https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/The_Raw_Story
  - bjourne 8y ago
    "One accuser, Anna Ardin, may have “ties to the US-financed anti-Castro and anti-communist groups,” according to Israel Shamir and Paul Bennett, writing for CounterPunch. While in Cuba, Ardin worked with the Las damas de blanco (the Ladies in White), a feminist anti-Castro group." Israel Shamir is not only the spokesperson for Wikileaks Russia, he is also bat-shit insane. Accusing people of being CIA operatives is right up his alley.
    - matt4077 8y ago
      The linked article on Counterpunch has also been deleted.
  - matt4077 8y ago
    Seriously? Quote: "While in Cuba, Ardin worked with the Las damas de blanco (the Ladies in White), a feminist anti-Castro group. Professor Michael Seltzer pointed out that the group is led by Carlos Alberto Montaner who is reportedly connected to the CIA." That's like five degrees of Kevin Bacon...
    - icebraining 8y ago
      I can't even find any sources confirming that Carlos Alberto Montaner leads Las Damas de Blanco, including in pro-Castro sites.
    - darkpuma 8y ago
      Five degrees? I count two. Edit: That's three edges between her and the CIA, and frankly Ardin to Seltzer is one, making the count two. One to Seltzer, one to the CIA. If "reportedly" doesn't cut it for you, then you must think the CIA is the world's most incompetent intelligence agency because they evidently have connections to nobody at all!
      - matt4077 8y ago
        Ardin -> Organisation -> It's boss -> CIA. 4 (+ infinity for "reportedly connected"). I'm actually assuming he's "reportedly connected" because he's the boss of an organisation whose leader is "reportedly connected".
  - chatmasta 8y ago
    > While in Cuba, Ardin worked with the Las damas de blanco (the Ladies in White), a feminist anti-Castro group. Sure, it's possible she was working for CIA. But the story is that she was volunteering with wikileaks. Based on her background, does that sound unreasonable?
FireBeyond 8y ago
"Nation state wants to destroy reputation of someone they claim is doing massive damage to them. Intelligence agency sanctions some character assassination, efforts to frame him for a crime." Comes up with "wake up sex without a condom for an otherwise consensual episode", and operative isn't overly motivated to pursue charges. If this is the best the CIA can muster, I don't feel outrage so much as profound sadness at the waste of our resources (leaving aside, for the sake of example, related moral or ethical questions, and merely talking abilities and logistics).

praptak 8y ago

Corroborating evidence: https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/797188 https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/797188 - "Sweden’s Serial Negligence in Prosecuting Rape Further Highlights the Politics Behind Julian Assange’s Arrest"

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

Udik 8y ago

From what I understood, Sweden has a very extensive definition of "rape". Basically someone can go to the police and say "well, in hindsight I do feel a bit raped" and that is enough. Assange's accusers hosted him at their place, had consensual sex with him, and the day after they parted ways peacefully.

netsharc 8y ago
That's not what I read. What I read is he removed the condom during it, and she did not know this.
FireBeyond 8y ago
A bit more involved than that. They or one of them had agreed to sex with the use of a condom, and realized at one point, possibly waking up, that he was not using a condom, which could be argued to be non-consensual.
- sievebrain 8y ago
  The women in question were caught lying about the charges in various ways and destroying evidence by deleting tweets and texts. There's no reason to believe them about anything really: behind the "he said she said" nature of the condom claim, if that was the only matter under dispute they wouldn't have changed their story.