4 ms·

I know a German who avoided work by staying in university into her 40s. This was only possible because it was free to her. Despite 20+ years of university educa

I know a German who avoided work by staying in university into her 40s. This was only possible because it was free to her. Despite 20+ years of university education, she managed to get a low level job. I don't know how prevalent this is in Europe. But it's a general economic fact that people don't value what they get for free. They need to have "skin in the game", so to speak. If you want evidence, look at how people treat rental cars vs their own. Or how they treat those ride share bikes. Or how they treat public bathrooms. Etc.

travisporter 8y ago
People may not value it but can I argue that society improves as a result? I personally treat rental cars, bikes and public bathrooms the same as anyone else. I don’t trash them but don’t clean them meticulously. I still value their presence.
- monetus 8y ago
  I agree with your sentiment, but understand his as well. I think it's mostly a cultural problem rather than some instinctual problem with humanity. Japan has a culture of cleanliness as far as I can tell. In my area, however, a handful practices seem to persist because of the fun derived from exploiting the commons.
  - skookumchuck 8y ago
    Many times I hear the phrase "what do you care, it's a rental!" People who buy used cars tend to avoid ex-rentals. Once a group I was in was staying in a hotel. We were all heading out to dinner, and one person came out of her room, leaving the light on. I asked why she didn't turn out the light. She replied: "why should I? I'm not paying the electric bill." Apparently that's pretty common, as most hotel rooms I stay in these days require you to insert your room key into a device that enables turning on the lights, so they turned off when you leave.
    - monetus 8y ago
      This is so frustrating because it describes my family... They understand empathy and the concept of a carbon footprint, but don't consider them when it comes to decision making. In my experience, it is as if it isn't a variable in the equation.
- skookumchuck 8y ago
  I attended public high school, where everything was free, and a private college, where everyone paid to attend. What a difference. High school was populated by people "doing their time", who wanted to get by doing as little as possible, thought it was cool to be disruptive, cut classes, etc. They definitely dragged the whole thing down for the others. College was different. People paid to be there, the work was hard, people wanted to be there and would take the hard classes to get their money's worth. There weren't any disruptive students. What a difference.
  - SketchySeaBeast 8y ago
    You're also describing the difference between children and adults. In fact, I think you'll find that the older the college students the less the disruption.
    - skookumchuck 8y ago
      When I was a boy I'd not take care of my shoes, wearing them out very quickly. My father applied a simple solution. He said if I wanted new shoes, I had to earn the money to pay for them. My shoes started lasting several times longer. I was still a child. My dad didn't think of this himself. The Army had the same problem with combat boots, and solved it by having the GIs pay for their boots.
  - int_19h 8y ago
    Money is not the only way to pay. In fact, it is often the easiest way to pay. I studied in a university in a country where you have a dual-track system - either you get in for free, but have to pass a far more rigorous exam (since you're competing against everybody else who is trying to get in for free), or you pay and get your spot. The people who paid their way in - or rather, whose parents paid their way in - tended to do that "doing their time" thing you described. The people who were studying for free were far more determined to make all the efforts that they had to put into passing the entry exam worthwhile.

travisporter 8y ago

People may not value it but can I argue that society improves as a result? I personally treat rental cars, bikes and public bathrooms the same as anyone else. I don’t trash them but don’t clean them meticulously. I still value their presence.

monetus 8y ago
I agree with your sentiment, but understand his as well. I think it's mostly a cultural problem rather than some instinctual problem with humanity. Japan has a culture of cleanliness as far as I can tell. In my area, however, a handful practices seem to persist because of the fun derived from exploiting the commons.
- skookumchuck 8y ago
  Many times I hear the phrase "what do you care, it's a rental!" People who buy used cars tend to avoid ex-rentals. Once a group I was in was staying in a hotel. We were all heading out to dinner, and one person came out of her room, leaving the light on. I asked why she didn't turn out the light. She replied: "why should I? I'm not paying the electric bill." Apparently that's pretty common, as most hotel rooms I stay in these days require you to insert your room key into a device that enables turning on the lights, so they turned off when you leave.
  - monetus 8y ago
    This is so frustrating because it describes my family... They understand empathy and the concept of a carbon footprint, but don't consider them when it comes to decision making. In my experience, it is as if it isn't a variable in the equation.
skookumchuck 8y ago
I attended public high school, where everything was free, and a private college, where everyone paid to attend. What a difference. High school was populated by people "doing their time", who wanted to get by doing as little as possible, thought it was cool to be disruptive, cut classes, etc. They definitely dragged the whole thing down for the others. College was different. People paid to be there, the work was hard, people wanted to be there and would take the hard classes to get their money's worth. There weren't any disruptive students. What a difference.
- SketchySeaBeast 8y ago
  You're also describing the difference between children and adults. In fact, I think you'll find that the older the college students the less the disruption.
  - skookumchuck 8y ago
    When I was a boy I'd not take care of my shoes, wearing them out very quickly. My father applied a simple solution. He said if I wanted new shoes, I had to earn the money to pay for them. My shoes started lasting several times longer. I was still a child. My dad didn't think of this himself. The Army had the same problem with combat boots, and solved it by having the GIs pay for their boots.
- int_19h 8y ago
  Money is not the only way to pay. In fact, it is often the easiest way to pay. I studied in a university in a country where you have a dual-track system - either you get in for free, but have to pass a far more rigorous exam (since you're competing against everybody else who is trying to get in for free), or you pay and get your spot. The people who paid their way in - or rather, whose parents paid their way in - tended to do that "doing their time" thing you described. The people who were studying for free were far more determined to make all the efforts that they had to put into passing the entry exam worthwhile.