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New human species found in Philippines
- mc32 8y agoLooks like this adds to the evidence that our ancestors left Africa in a diaspora much, much earlier than had previously been thought, especially as this is far from their original continent.
- SCAQTony 8y agoMaybe the out of Arica theory should be revisited? Post the Zanclean flood when the Mediterranean basin was subtropical it appears there were hominids "all over creation." That is to say Australia, Kenya, Philippines and even a Homo Erectus version in India. Due to the subtropical climate and the below sea Mediterranean basin who is to say that no proto-human in that basin did not run north-south, and east?
- opportune 8y agoJust because there were hominins outside of africa millions of years ago doesn't mean modern humans descended from them. For example, we have long known that Homo Erectus left Africa millions of years ago. What we do not have evidence of are direct ancestors of anatomically modern humans originating outside of Africa.
- patrickg_zill 8y agoThe out of Africa theory has been overblown for a long time. See as just one example, https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-the-out-of-africa-theory-out/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-the-out-of-afr...
- hyperpape 8y agoTo me, that article reads like it concerns the ancestors of Neanderthals. Am I misreading it?
- twblalock 8y agoMassive amounts of genetic evidence have been discovered since that article was published and the out of Africa theory still holds up.
- patrickg_zill 8y agoPlease cite some of the sources of the information that you claim is massively out there...
- twblalock 8y agoThe out of Africa theory is overwhelmingly supported by genetic evidence. A multi-origin hypothesis is basically impossible to support at this point. What is now happening is that the out of Africa theory is absorbing new facts: - How many different migrations of homo sapiens out of Africa have there been? (probably several) - Did any groups who spent time in Europe migrate back to Africa and contribute new genes to the African gene pool (likely) - Did homo sapiens who left Africa encounter and breed with other hominin species? (definitely, and those other species also originated in Africa) David Reich's book from last year, "Who We Are and How We Got Here", covers a lot of the recent discoveries.
- flukus 8y agoI don't think everyone here is using the same definition of "out of Africa" here. There pretty much no doubt the hominids in general and modern humans came from Africa. But subspecies like denisova and neanderthal evolved outside of Africa (probably). Most modern humans are from Africa with multi-regional mixins, those mixins themselves were African origin if you go back far enough. It's all a game of how far you want to go back.
- coldacid 8y agoThere have almost certainly been multiple migrations out of Africa, per the Sahara pump theory.
- danieltillett 8y agoNot really. There is no evidence that this homo sp. has any living decendants. It has been known for a long time that homo spp. left Africa millions of years ago. The only unexpected finding here is that this homo sp. got to an island that is surrounded by water. I have a feeling that this species is a Denosovian, but unless they can get some DNA out we won't know. We do know that the Denosovian knew how to travel over open ocean as they made it to Australia and PNG.
- mkl 8y ago> We do know that the Denosovian knew how to travel over open ocean as they made it to Australia and PNG. This is incorrect. We know Denisovans only from one cave in Siberia. From there we have DNA sequences, and from those we can tell Denisovans interbred with some homo sapiens, including people now in Australia and PNG (up to 6% of their DNA is Denisovan). There is no evidence that Denisovans themselves travelled that far.
- danieltillett 8y agoWell Denosovian DNA is basically absent on the Asian side of the Wallace line and at a very high frequency on the Australian side. On top of this there is physical evidence of homo sp. occupation of Australia as far back as 120K years ago which is before modern humans can be found outside of Africa. There is one additional piece of evidence which is the modern Australian Aborignial and PNG population is descended from a founder population that appeared 15-30K years ago. Add all these up and the evidence is strongly in favour of the Denosovians being the first homo sp. that crossed the Wallace line.
- YUMad 8y agoNot really, that founding population could have mated with Denisovan before crossing the Wallace line. Which is most likely what happened, IMO. Descendants of that population got outcompeted by later ooA migrations, other than small pockets such as Negritos, who also show high Neandertal DNA %.
- rosegarden0 8y agoI find it fascinating how at some point, someone came up with the theory of us being apes, then evolved into humans, where it’s clear that that narrative is no where near definitive. Then why do these types of findings always get forced in that narrative, followed up with statements like “which we didn’t thought was possible”. Starting with a fixed narrative and looking at findings from a narrow perspective makes us overlook things - and perhaps - alternative theories.
- Scarblac 8y agoWe are apes. There is no doubt whatsoever about that narrative.
- ibra77 8y agonice, keep forcing the narrative. 500 years forward, people will look at these times the same way we look at the church in middle ages forcing the earth is flat.
- devoply 8y agoMaybe. Maybe we are brains in a vat plugged into an ape's body... or something similar. Where when you take control of an animal's body your actual memory is masked so you experience reality as an ape. That happened perhaps 10,000 years ago. Before that we were just apes. There is something highly artificial about human thinking and desire... which is not easily explained to me as hey we're the same as all the other animals on this planet.
- w0de0 8y ago> There is something highly artificial about human thinking and desire Compared to the other forms of thinking and desire you have experienced?
- devoply 8y agoWell from observation it does not seem to me that other animals have the same thoughts and desires as people. Or perhaps they are not capable of expressing their desires. Hard to say because nothing else on this planet developed language. Or maybe we killed the rest?
- ibra77 8y agowaiting for the upcoming "oh sorry it turned out to be something else" or the "ape bone was faked to seem like ancient human" article. Getting tired of the forced narrative and toxic environment that doesn't allow scientists to think in any other theories except one. which also indirectly gives way to fakers and forgers because anything that fits the narrative is by default over-hyped.
- lukebitts 8y agoI'm probably going to regret this, but what other theories do you think are being ignored?
- hsnewman 8y agoIt had orange skin, low IQ, giant ego, and small hands.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- swamy_g 8y agoThe headline is a bit deceiving. I thought there is a new human species currently in existence in the Philippines.
- andrewstuart 8y agoYes "fossils" somewhere in the headline might clarify that. I was expected a secret tribe of Neanderthals to have turned up.
- magissima 8y agoDefinitely, I'm not normally one to criticize headlines but this one is missing some pretty important context.
- mongol 8y agoThat would be some news, indeed.
- onlyrealcuzzo 8y agoI thought the same thing.
- meruru 8y agoObviously the intended effect, but you could tell it's not the case by the fact it's not the top story here.
- okonomiyaki3000 8y agoCome on, guys, we've seen this kind of headline before about hominid species as well as other types of extinct animals. It may be a bit poorly worded but, if something like that really did happen, you wouldn't hear about it first on Hacker News.
- doitLP 8y agoActually this is probably the first place many would hear about it.
- blancheneige 8y ago>That could mean primitive human relatives left Africa and made it all the way to South-East Asia, something not previously thought possible. Happy to dig up the source when I get home, but I remember specifically reading a paper not so long ago about a possible alternative to that hypothesis, namely that our current species might have originated out of Asia, not Africa. In which case it might not be so difficult to reconcile these outcomes.
- toasterlovin 8y agoOur species definitely originated in Africa. All the genetics point to this being the case (there is much greater genetic diversity in African populations vs. anywhere else in the world). The question is whether additional significant evolution (and even back flow into Africa) happened after we left Africa. And I think the answer to that question is, yes, it did (as evidenced by the significant admixture with Neanderthals and Denisovans). If you're interested, there's a great episode of The Insight podcast with Milford Wolpoff that discusses a lot of this: https://insitome.libsyn.com/multiregionalism-is-deadlong-live-multiregionalism https://insitome.libsyn.com/multiregionalism-is-deadlong-liv...
- ColanR 8y agoI'd be really interested to read that source, if you were to dig it up. It's nice to explore hard-science based alternatives to prevailing theories.
- hinkley 8y agoI finally read 1491 and it just reinforced my concerns that we are underestimating the boat building skills of our ancestors. The making and using of stone tools leave a lot of refuse that shows up in the archaeological record. If hominids keep showing up in places only accessible by boat or Olympic class swimming then are we simply missing the evidence of the enabling technologies?
- thrownblown 8y ago1493 is good too!
- contingencies 8y agoWhile archaeologists definitely do tend to underestimate the viability of sea voyages, don't consider 1491 a work of fact. It's rather fast and loose with its interpretation. Zheng He or members of some of his 7 voyages did get to the east coast of Africa, but any further movement is not supported by either evidence or literature. You can check out https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-Columbian_trans-oceanic_contact_theories https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-Columbian_trans-oceanic_co... for some debunking. Most places on earth, America included, are or were reachable in small watercraft at certain times of the year, even without sail, given certain weather conditions. Only the remotest islands truly required advanced seafaring for repeat navigation. Anyway, aside from isolated boating incidents there are far more impressive stories that are buried by popular history and its political supporters - the use of Persian as a lingua franca for trade and diplomacy as far away as China, various Indian Kingdoms throughout Southeast Asia and up to the Chinese border, entire civilizations whose expanse was extremely significant but virtually nobody has heard of, successful cultural genocides on grand scales, etc.
- nbonaparte 8y agoYou seem to have confused 1421 with 1491. The latter is generally considered to be a well-researched book while the former is, as you say, merely a grand tale.
- 8y ago
- apo 8y agoThe emergence of these extinct human species from the fossil record raises a nagging question: what happened to them all? Across the animal kingdom, single-species genera are somewhat uncommon. Why is there only one species of the genus Homo? A related question. The extinction of the last surviving non-Sapiens coincides more or less with the retreat of the last glaciation period and the emergence of human civilization (see the chart midway into the linked article). These events also seem to have happened about the same time as the extinction of certain large land mammals such as the saber-tooth tiger and woolly mammoth. Are these extinctions, large land mammals and species of Homo, connected in some way with the retreat of glaciers and/or the emergence of human civilization? These questions are asked (but not really answered) in the first part of the book Sapiens.
- chrischen 8y agoMaybe they simply got merged into us? We all have neanderthal ancestry.
- daenz 8y agoIsn't "merged" a nice way of saying that the men and children were likely murdered and the women taken for breeding? "Merged" conjures an image of living peacefully side by side and interbreeding for many generations.
- uwuhn 8y agoIsn't this ultimately the origin of everything that we recognize as a modern ethnicity? We're all the products of amalgamations of conquered/extinguished tribes, states, empires, and cultures, most of which are lost to history forever.
- markdown 8y agoYes. And?
- okonomiyaki3000 8y ago
- amatecha 8y agoIMO might want to revise the title to something like "Remains of previously-unknown human species found in Philippines" -- I initially thought the headline was indicating some kind of super elusive secret species of humanoids was living in some hidden cave or something. :'D
- rubyfan 8y ago+1 whomp whomp
- doorbellguy 8y agoThat was my exact first thought. Well, I dunno if it was intended to be a clickbait of sorts, but it sure worked. Cause that first title would have not made me click the story.
- omarchowdhury 8y agoIt's 2019. Of course it's all clickbait. :)
- martindale 8y agoI thought the same. It was an exciting thought for a moment, but then I thought about how politically charged such a discussion would become. Sad states, regardless...
- mmanfrin 8y ago> That could mean primitive human relatives left Africa and made it all the way to South-East Asia, something not previously thought possible. Article is poorly researched: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_floresiensis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_floresiensis
- nevster 8y agoDumb question. How do we know it's a new species and not just humans with particular genetic traits? For example, if a million years from now, someone was to dig up a bunch of bones from a dog kennel, what would they make of all the different bones from Irish wolfhounds down to sausage dogs?
- aaron695 8y ago> New human species found in Philippines Obviously not, even if it is, which is unlikely, it's far from proof. https://theconversation.com/how-much-evidence-is-enough-to-declare-a-new-species-of-human-from-a-philippines-cave-site-115139 https://theconversation.com/how-much-evidence-is-enough-to-d...