4 ms·

Given the small scope and some of the ideal use cases for this, it would be really great to have some objectives like being 100% asan, msan, ubsan-clean and pas

Given the small scope and some of the ideal use cases for this, it would be really great to have some objectives like being 100% asan, msan, ubsan-clean and passing valgrind. People will eventually ship stuff like this in IoT and that'll make it unlikely that security and bug patches will get deployed.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
daniel_rh 8y ago
or written in a secure language without undefined behavior and without any "unsafe" code like Rust or Safe Haskell. IoT probably should be shipping code that uses static compiler checks as the first line of security defense rather than run-time checks like valgrind and asan.
- Skunkleton 8y ago
  Embedded programming will always be unsafe to a degree. You can't avoid interacting w/ hardware. Static analysis can only get you so far.
- BubRoss 8y ago
  Hello World in Haskell would already be too large for many micro controllers.
  - pjmlp 8y ago
    OCaml, Oberon, Java, Lisp and Scheme manage just fine.
    - BubRoss 8y ago
      The parent didn't mention any of those.
      - pjmlp 8y ago
        > "written in a secure language without undefined behavior" "Like" following the rest of the sentence can be understood as "for example", and not as the only possibilities to choose from.
swiley 8y ago
Writing large C projects without tools like valgrind is crazy! I guess in some situations it can be hard to set up (like kernel programming.) but user space software should always be written with it. My personal experience is tools like valgrind will immediately shove stupid mistakes back in your face (rather than waiting a few days to realize the change you made is corrupting the heap in a way that eventually causes the program to crash.) and the result is not only better memory management in your project but also better memory management in future projects.

4 ms·

Given the small scope and some of the ideal use cases for this, it would be really great to have some objectives like being 100% asan, msan, ubsan-clean and pas

by kevingadd 8y ago

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
daniel_rh 8y ago
or written in a secure language without undefined behavior and without any "unsafe" code like Rust or Safe Haskell. IoT probably should be shipping code that uses static compiler checks as the first line of security defense rather than run-time checks like valgrind and asan.
- Skunkleton 8y ago
  Embedded programming will always be unsafe to a degree. You can't avoid interacting w/ hardware. Static analysis can only get you so far.
- BubRoss 8y ago
  Hello World in Haskell would already be too large for many micro controllers.
  - pjmlp 8y ago
    OCaml, Oberon, Java, Lisp and Scheme manage just fine.
    - BubRoss 8y ago
      The parent didn't mention any of those.
      - pjmlp 8y ago
        > "written in a secure language without undefined behavior" "Like" following the rest of the sentence can be understood as "for example", and not as the only possibilities to choose from.
swiley 8y ago
Writing large C projects without tools like valgrind is crazy! I guess in some situations it can be hard to set up (like kernel programming.) but user space software should always be written with it. My personal experience is tools like valgrind will immediately shove stupid mistakes back in your face (rather than waiting a few days to realize the change you made is corrupting the heap in a way that eventually causes the program to crash.) and the result is not only better memory management in your project but also better memory management in future projects.