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> Being on a Java/.NET/C++ shop, I hardly notice a difference between Java and .NET mono-cultures. Don't confuse your corporate monoculture for a monoculture o

> Being on a Java/.NET/C++ shop, I hardly notice a difference between Java and .NET mono-cultures. Don't confuse your corporate monoculture for a monoculture of an entire ecosystem. > It was mostly JEE or Spring, Swing or SWT, Ant or Maven, .... everything else tends to be loved in online forums but hardly seen live across the globe. Yeah, big frameworks are still popular, nothing surprising about that. Thing is, these big frameworks are usually designed to be modular out of the box - if you don't like a certain component don't use it and pull in something else. No need to throw the baby out with the bathwater, and there is plenty of choice for individual parts of your stack without nixing Spring Framework or CDI. Hell, even if you do you have micro-frameworks like Dropwizard that are just various components welded together because the ecosystem makes doing it fairly easy. > Stack Overflow recent survey results are yet another proof of it, every JVM language that is going to "replace" Java is stuck in single digit percentage. And? Nothing "needs" to replace the language, though nothing until Kotlin has ever been in a position to even be a #2. Scala can't stop breaking compatibility every release, nobody ever heard of Ceylon, Groovy & Clojure don't fit the same statically-typed niche. All of these work though, and they all can share code with each other so it doesn't have to be a zero-sum game either.

zmmmmm 8y ago
> And? Nothing "needs" to replace the language, though I think this is a really important thing about JVM langauges. They can exist successfully at much lower thresholds of popularity because they piggy back on Java. So I don't have to worry about Groovy dying off (which is not to say it is) - because basically as long as Java is around it is going to have access to a giant community of developers. So using Groovy or Clojure or Scala etc is a much lower risk proposition than jumping in the deep end with a stand alone language. In that sense, Groovy / Clojure / Scala / Kotlin don't really compete with each other or Java as much as help each other, and Java's popularity is really the sum of all of them.
- vorg 8y ago
  > So I don't have to worry about Groovy dying off (which is not to say it is) Apache Groovy is dying off. Whenever some software product bundles it as a built-in scripting language, after a short time Groovy's snags become apparent and that software starts bundling another scripting solution, e.g. Kotlin for build scripts in Gradle [1], or the Declarative Pipeline Syntax for Jenkins [2]. [1] https://docs.gradle.org/5.0/userguide/kotlin_dsl.html https://docs.gradle.org/5.0/userguide/kotlin_dsl.html [2] https://jenkins.io/blog/2016/12/19/declarative-pipeline-beta/ https://jenkins.io/blog/2016/12/19/declarative-pipeline-beta...

zmmmmm 8y ago

> And? Nothing "needs" to replace the language, though I think this is a really important thing about JVM langauges. They can exist successfully at much lower thresholds of popularity because they piggy back on Java. So I don't have to worry about Groovy dying off (which is not to say it is) - because basically as long as Java is around it is going to have access to a giant community of developers. So using Groovy or Clojure or Scala etc is a much lower risk proposition than jumping in the deep end with a stand alone language. In that sense, Groovy / Clojure / Scala / Kotlin don't really compete with each other or Java as much as help each other, and Java's popularity is really the sum of all of them.

vorg 8y ago
> So I don't have to worry about Groovy dying off (which is not to say it is) Apache Groovy is dying off. Whenever some software product bundles it as a built-in scripting language, after a short time Groovy's snags become apparent and that software starts bundling another scripting solution, e.g. Kotlin for build scripts in Gradle [1], or the Declarative Pipeline Syntax for Jenkins [2]. [1] https://docs.gradle.org/5.0/userguide/kotlin_dsl.html https://docs.gradle.org/5.0/userguide/kotlin_dsl.html [2] https://jenkins.io/blog/2016/12/19/declarative-pipeline-beta/ https://jenkins.io/blog/2016/12/19/declarative-pipeline-beta...