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And this is exactly what's wrong with the US right now. No one cares to help anyone else. Even in healthcare! "I have my money, if they die it's because they

And this is exactly what's wrong with the US right now. No one cares to help anyone else. Even in healthcare! "I have my money, if they die it's because they chose to be poor."

jedmeyers 8y ago
> No one cares to help anyone else. If people in Europe cared to help their money would not have been taken by force via taxes.
- quentindemetz 8y ago
  « People in Europe » have elected politicians who have enacted these tax policies. Money is not being taken by force...
  - jedmeyers 8y ago
    People with guns literally come to your house and put you in jail if you don't pay taxes. Not taken by force? Can one person come to your house and take your money? Can ten? At what point it becomes "not by force"?
    - SketchySeaBeast 8y ago
      Could you provide an alternative to this "violent" taxation with real world, contemporary examples of a system that provides the benefits of a modern nation?
- Retra 8y ago
  You're assuming people don't see taxes as the preferred means of providing aid to those that need it.
  - jedmeyers 8y ago
    Most people don't know and don't care where their taxes are going, because they were conditioned to behave this way from the early childhood. Ever wonder why government funded schools don't teach about fiscal responsibility?
- Shish2k 8y ago
  "Taken by force" is a strange (very American?) way to put it. As a European, I'm happy to pay taxes because it's a convenient and efficient way to get money out of my bank account and into the hands of people who need it more than me; I'm helping my fellow countrymen with literally zero effort on my part, which makes my country a better place for me to live in. If we cancelled taxes and required people to make individual donations, I would still want to, but I would probably be too busy / lazy to do it :P (Not to say that the government does a PERFECTLY efficient job of distributing taxes to those in need, I actually disagree with much of their spending - but on the whole it does a considerably better job than I would if I had to do it all myself)
  - jedmeyers 8y ago
    > As a European, I'm happy to pay taxes because Because you will go to jail if you won't. > taxes is a convenient and efficient way to get money out of my bank account and into the hands of people who need it more than me If this is something other than a very elaborate satire, I would be very surprised. > literally zero effort on my part Calling at least a third of your earnings "literally zero effort" is a bit disingenuous.
    - Shish2k 8y ago
      > Because you will go to jail if you won't. Firstly, please don't put words into other people's mouths, it is very disingenuous. As to the actual point - I'll also go to jail if I murder someone. But I wouldn't say "the government is using force to stop me from murdering people", "the reason to avoid murdering people is because you will go to jail if you do" - I'm happy to go around not-murdering people of my own free will, because I believe that society is a better place when we don't murder each other. > Calling at least a third of your earnings "literally zero effort" is a bit disingenuous. The GOAL is to spend a third of my money, so I'm not counting that as effort - taxes take a third of my earnings in between my employer and my bank account, so by the time my monthly pay reaches my bank account, it has all been taken care of. Compare to the charity approach, where I need to research, make decisions, do bank transfers, keep up-to-date with the changing needs of a changing society... If I want to do a not-half-assed job of it, then I'm going to be spending so much time on it that it cancels out the benefit. A few people organising national spending at scale, even if they are only barely competent, is more efficient than everybody doing it individually.
instaheat 8y ago
Chris, I understand what you are saying. Of course we care to help other people. Collectively, the US might be seen as "selfish" but I think at a certain point, you have to understand you do not want to harm yourself just to help someone else. I really feel for people who will go to great lengths to help others, even if it reduces the quality of their own life just because it's the "right thing to do" My mother-in-law is like this. She would let a convicted murderer that was down on their luck move in with her because "everyone deserves a roof over their head" Again, I GET IT. But do you understand why some may have these selfish viewpoints?
- Jotra7 8y ago
  >Again, I GET IT. But do you understand why some may have these selfish viewpoints? Psychopathy.
  - instaheat 8y ago
    Sound analysis from one sentence.
- mrguyorama 8y ago
  >Again, I GET IT. But do you understand why some may have these selfish viewpoints? A complete lack of empathy for fellow people
  - instaheat 8y ago
    Cue the violins.
- danans 8y ago
  > but I think at a certain point, you have to understand you do not want to harm yourself just to help someone else. What's special about the US among highly developed nations is that we've convinced ourselves that most of us would be harmed, when it's likely that only a very well-off minority would be harmed (where "harmed" means "be slight less well-off, but still well off").

And this is exactly what's wrong with the US right now. No one cares to help anyone else. Even in healthcare! "I have my money, if they die it's because they chose to be poor."

jedmeyers 8y ago

> No one cares to help anyone else. If people in Europe cared to help their money would not have been taken by force via taxes.

quentindemetz 8y ago
« People in Europe » have elected politicians who have enacted these tax policies. Money is not being taken by force...
- jedmeyers 8y ago
  People with guns literally come to your house and put you in jail if you don't pay taxes. Not taken by force? Can one person come to your house and take your money? Can ten? At what point it becomes "not by force"?
  - SketchySeaBeast 8y ago
    Could you provide an alternative to this "violent" taxation with real world, contemporary examples of a system that provides the benefits of a modern nation?
Retra 8y ago
You're assuming people don't see taxes as the preferred means of providing aid to those that need it.
- jedmeyers 8y ago
  Most people don't know and don't care where their taxes are going, because they were conditioned to behave this way from the early childhood. Ever wonder why government funded schools don't teach about fiscal responsibility?
Shish2k 8y ago
"Taken by force" is a strange (very American?) way to put it. As a European, I'm happy to pay taxes because it's a convenient and efficient way to get money out of my bank account and into the hands of people who need it more than me; I'm helping my fellow countrymen with literally zero effort on my part, which makes my country a better place for me to live in. If we cancelled taxes and required people to make individual donations, I would still want to, but I would probably be too busy / lazy to do it :P (Not to say that the government does a PERFECTLY efficient job of distributing taxes to those in need, I actually disagree with much of their spending - but on the whole it does a considerably better job than I would if I had to do it all myself)
- jedmeyers 8y ago
  > As a European, I'm happy to pay taxes because Because you will go to jail if you won't. > taxes is a convenient and efficient way to get money out of my bank account and into the hands of people who need it more than me If this is something other than a very elaborate satire, I would be very surprised. > literally zero effort on my part Calling at least a third of your earnings "literally zero effort" is a bit disingenuous.
  - Shish2k 8y ago
    > Because you will go to jail if you won't. Firstly, please don't put words into other people's mouths, it is very disingenuous. As to the actual point - I'll also go to jail if I murder someone. But I wouldn't say "the government is using force to stop me from murdering people", "the reason to avoid murdering people is because you will go to jail if you do" - I'm happy to go around not-murdering people of my own free will, because I believe that society is a better place when we don't murder each other. > Calling at least a third of your earnings "literally zero effort" is a bit disingenuous. The GOAL is to spend a third of my money, so I'm not counting that as effort - taxes take a third of my earnings in between my employer and my bank account, so by the time my monthly pay reaches my bank account, it has all been taken care of. Compare to the charity approach, where I need to research, make decisions, do bank transfers, keep up-to-date with the changing needs of a changing society... If I want to do a not-half-assed job of it, then I'm going to be spending so much time on it that it cancels out the benefit. A few people organising national spending at scale, even if they are only barely competent, is more efficient than everybody doing it individually.

instaheat 8y ago

Chris, I understand what you are saying. Of course we care to help other people. Collectively, the US might be seen as "selfish" but I think at a certain point, you have to understand you do not want to harm yourself just to help someone else. I really feel for people who will go to great lengths to help others, even if it reduces the quality of their own life just because it's the "right thing to do" My mother-in-law is like this. She would let a convicted murderer that was down on their luck move in with her because "everyone deserves a roof over their head" Again, I GET IT. But do you understand why some may have these selfish viewpoints?

Jotra7 8y ago
>Again, I GET IT. But do you understand why some may have these selfish viewpoints? Psychopathy.
- instaheat 8y ago
  Sound analysis from one sentence.
mrguyorama 8y ago
>Again, I GET IT. But do you understand why some may have these selfish viewpoints? A complete lack of empathy for fellow people
- instaheat 8y ago
  Cue the violins.
danans 8y ago
> but I think at a certain point, you have to understand you do not want to harm yourself just to help someone else. What's special about the US among highly developed nations is that we've convinced ourselves that most of us would be harmed, when it's likely that only a very well-off minority would be harmed (where "harmed" means "be slight less well-off, but still well off").