4 ms·

I think you have made several incorrect statements. I love Markdown, but Org does a lot more, because: * It supports a variety of timestamps, which is critica

by nextos 8y ago

I think you have made several incorrect statements. I love Markdown, but Org does a lot more, because: * It supports a variety of timestamps, which is critical for implementing task management workflows. In fact, I think Org has more users for it's time management features than for anything else. * It supports tables with spreadsheet-like formulas. So you can include data in your documents and perform computations. This opens the door to accounting, billing and part lists when doing project management, etc. * It extends Emacs outline-mode, so it has a really consistent hierarchical structure, properties, tags and whatnot. Very important in a number of use cases. * It supports literate programming, which I don't use, but can reasonably replace Jupyter-like notebooks. * It defines a number of link types, which can be extended. Out of the box, it does support DOI for example. Which is important for many people doing reference management.

jmull 8y ago
> I think you have made several incorrect statements. If you're going to say that, you should list some of them (with corrections).
- omaranto 8y ago
  Heck, even without corrections listing some would be way, way better than just claiming they exist.
lucideer 8y ago
> I think you have made several incorrect statements. If I did, I'd be eager to correct them. What were they? > I love Markdown, but Org does a lot more I agree. Org is great, as I said above. I don't think I criticise Org anywhere in my comment, I was purely questioning the points in the article about non-Emacs use.
- nextos 8y ago
  Apologies for my imprecise answer before. I mainly intended to say I think Org is much more standardized than Markdown because there is at least a unique reference implementation and a unique reference document describing the format. Whereas for Markdown, you do have many slightly different implementations and attempts at standardization, despite Markdown being an order of magnitude simpler. In places like GitLab, people are taking advantage of this by running Emacs in batch mode inside a container to effectively use the reference implementation for export-to-other-formats purposes. It's not an ideal situation, though. And I hope someone creates a truly independent library. There is a Ruby parser employed by GitHub and GitLab which covers a decent subset of Org. Furthermore, Orgzly and vim-orgmode are pretty much closer to implementing a much bigger subset of Org.
  - sachdevap 8y ago
    I think the solution is not just an implementation, but rather a language description independent of an implementation. A reference description would allow org mode format to be usable in perpetuity. As a side-note: As a regular emacs and org-mode user, not a fan of the date format and lack of flexibility in picking repeating schedules.
    - jolmg 8y ago
      > not a fan of the date format and lack of flexibility in picking repeating schedules. I haven't used repeaters that much, but I was under the impression that they were very, very flexible. At least much more flexible than a typical todo app. What don't you like about them? For reference, here's some documentation about them: https://orgmode.org/manual/Repeated-tasks.html https://orgmode.org/manual/Repeated-tasks.html https://orgmode.org/manual/Timestamps.html#Timestamps https://orgmode.org/manual/Timestamps.html#Timestamps https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/org/Timestamps.html https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/org/Time... https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Sexp-Diary-Entries.html#Sexp-Diary-Entries https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Se...
      - sachdevap 8y ago
        I am quite familiar with the available options for repeated entries. But Something as usual as 2nd Thursday of every month requires me to write a diary-float sexp, which is not intuitive to edit. If it is difficult to use for a programmer like me, I can only imagine how complicated it is for other people. Moreover, diary-float sexp expressions are most definitely not helping the argument of usability outside emacs.
        jolmg 8y ago
        > But Something as usual as 2nd Thursday of every month requires me to write a diary-float sexp, which is not intuitive to edit. I agree that it could be better, but I'd be surprised if it was something that was typically expressible in other programs. So the fact that it's doable at all seems great, and does indicate that it's flexible. Since you said it lacked flexibility, I was wondering if you had an example of something that was not expressible in Emacs org-mode but that was expressible elsewhere. > Moreover, diary-float sexp expressions are most definitely not helping the argument of usability outside emacs. Well, it's not elisp, is it? It's just sexps. It may as well be JSON, but more concise.

by nextos 8y ago

jmull 8y ago

> I think you have made several incorrect statements. If you're going to say that, you should list some of them (with corrections).

omaranto 8y ago
Heck, even without corrections listing some would be way, way better than just claiming they exist.

lucideer 8y ago

> I think you have made several incorrect statements. If I did, I'd be eager to correct them. What were they? > I love Markdown, but Org does a lot more I agree. Org is great, as I said above. I don't think I criticise Org anywhere in my comment, I was purely questioning the points in the article about non-Emacs use.

nextos 8y ago
Apologies for my imprecise answer before. I mainly intended to say I think Org is much more standardized than Markdown because there is at least a unique reference implementation and a unique reference document describing the format. Whereas for Markdown, you do have many slightly different implementations and attempts at standardization, despite Markdown being an order of magnitude simpler. In places like GitLab, people are taking advantage of this by running Emacs in batch mode inside a container to effectively use the reference implementation for export-to-other-formats purposes. It's not an ideal situation, though. And I hope someone creates a truly independent library. There is a Ruby parser employed by GitHub and GitLab which covers a decent subset of Org. Furthermore, Orgzly and vim-orgmode are pretty much closer to implementing a much bigger subset of Org.
- sachdevap 8y ago
  I think the solution is not just an implementation, but rather a language description independent of an implementation. A reference description would allow org mode format to be usable in perpetuity. As a side-note: As a regular emacs and org-mode user, not a fan of the date format and lack of flexibility in picking repeating schedules.
  - jolmg 8y ago
    > not a fan of the date format and lack of flexibility in picking repeating schedules. I haven't used repeaters that much, but I was under the impression that they were very, very flexible. At least much more flexible than a typical todo app. What don't you like about them? For reference, here's some documentation about them: https://orgmode.org/manual/Repeated-tasks.html https://orgmode.org/manual/Repeated-tasks.html https://orgmode.org/manual/Timestamps.html#Timestamps https://orgmode.org/manual/Timestamps.html#Timestamps https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/org/Timestamps.html https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/org/Time... https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Sexp-Diary-Entries.html#Sexp-Diary-Entries https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Se...
    - sachdevap 8y ago
      I am quite familiar with the available options for repeated entries. But Something as usual as 2nd Thursday of every month requires me to write a diary-float sexp, which is not intuitive to edit. If it is difficult to use for a programmer like me, I can only imagine how complicated it is for other people. Moreover, diary-float sexp expressions are most definitely not helping the argument of usability outside emacs.
      - jolmg 8y ago
        > But Something as usual as 2nd Thursday of every month requires me to write a diary-float sexp, which is not intuitive to edit. I agree that it could be better, but I'd be surprised if it was something that was typically expressible in other programs. So the fact that it's doable at all seems great, and does indicate that it's flexible. Since you said it lacked flexibility, I was wondering if you had an example of something that was not expressible in Emacs org-mode but that was expressible elsewhere. > Moreover, diary-float sexp expressions are most definitely not helping the argument of usability outside emacs. Well, it's not elisp, is it? It's just sexps. It may as well be JSON, but more concise.