3 ms·

> comparing what changed before and after is the experiment. IIUC, in order to do that comparison you still need to collect data. You may throw that data away

> comparing what changed before and after is the experiment. IIUC, in order to do that comparison you still need to collect data. You may throw that data away and your experiment ends right there, you may do analysis on that data, but you said it yourself - it is an experiment.

AnthonyMouse 8y ago
Right, so what are we trying to do here then? Having a notification that you're constantly participating in an open-ended experiment with a purpose to be determined at a future date seems worse than nothing. But if you require a more specific notification before the data is collected then the after the fact analysis doesn't just require user notification, it's inherently prohibited.
- nojvek 8y ago
  Yeah i’d expect the notification as an opt-in? Do you want to be part of that experiment ?
  - AnthonyMouse 8y ago
    The experiment where they change the color of the submit button? What should cause me to care about that? And what does opt-in even look like? No matter whether you want to "participate in the experiment" the submit button still needs to be some color for you, which is the only part of the "experiment" with any direct effect on you. The concern with psychological experiments isn't that they're collecting data. That's a different bailiwick. The major issue with psychological experiments is that they may have significant direct psychological consequences. If you show people only news stories about mass shootings and conflict it may cause them to become violent or suicidal -- which has nothing to do with whether you collect data on it or what you do with it afterwards. The experiment itself is the harm. Which means we would need some kind of principled and efficient way of distinguishing those kinds of "real" experiments from just measuring what happens when you make a subtle adjustment to a context menu.

AnthonyMouse 8y ago

Right, so what are we trying to do here then? Having a notification that you're constantly participating in an open-ended experiment with a purpose to be determined at a future date seems worse than nothing. But if you require a more specific notification before the data is collected then the after the fact analysis doesn't just require user notification, it's inherently prohibited.

nojvek 8y ago
Yeah i’d expect the notification as an opt-in? Do you want to be part of that experiment ?
- AnthonyMouse 8y ago
  The experiment where they change the color of the submit button? What should cause me to care about that? And what does opt-in even look like? No matter whether you want to "participate in the experiment" the submit button still needs to be some color for you, which is the only part of the "experiment" with any direct effect on you. The concern with psychological experiments isn't that they're collecting data. That's a different bailiwick. The major issue with psychological experiments is that they may have significant direct psychological consequences. If you show people only news stories about mass shootings and conflict it may cause them to become violent or suicidal -- which has nothing to do with whether you collect data on it or what you do with it afterwards. The experiment itself is the harm. Which means we would need some kind of principled and efficient way of distinguishing those kinds of "real" experiments from just measuring what happens when you make a subtle adjustment to a context menu.