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> Georgia farmers lost more than a hundred and twenty million dollars > H-2A workers are still among the lowest paid in the country Why don't they pay labour

> Georgia farmers lost more than a hundred and twenty million dollars > H-2A workers are still among the lowest paid in the country Why don't they pay labour $100M?

Simple_Guy 7y ago
Because to do backbreaking work, labour demands $200 million. the current low price of produce is subsidised by cheap illegal immigrant labour. Just like how the spartans spent their time being warriors while their slaves toiled the field.
swelz 7y ago
I think a larger issue is that food/resource prices may be too low. Obviously, the farmers need to charge for the food/resource, but if they aren't able to turn a profit when properly hiring and paying staff/contractors to work for them, that's an issue. We don't know if the $100MM would cover the new cost or not. I believe there is an issue where we've (the US) relied on such low-cost labor for farms far too long and we do not know how to balance out our supply chain with properly paid labor.
- ngold 7y ago
  These are the tough questions that are going to have to be answered until another robotic cotton gin is invented.
- linuxftw 7y ago
  Yes, the food market is heavily distorted. If giant ag businesses that employ immigrants can't make a profit, it means there's too many farms in operation. Farms will close, food prices will rise, and the market will stabilize. A huge positive to this, smaller family-run farms that don't hire immigrant labor would actually be able to compete with the larger industrial farms. We might even be able to reduce total miles food travels farm to table because it's simply not profitable to ship produce cross-country when local farmers can produce at a competitive price.
  - salawat 7y ago
    I'm not sure even that would overcome the hyperoptimization capital trap advantage big industrial farms enjoy. I'm still pretty shallow in my understanding of the Ag industry, but the last research I'd done showed that process optimization gaps driven by capital access disparity, and an increasing encroachment of vertically integrating distribution businesses were the major drivers of small farms out of the market. The wage hits through access to capital to pay workers will also hit smaller operations harder in the sense the smaller you are the fewer people feel safe investing in you. It'd be nice if it would sort itself in favor of the little guy, but I'm just not seeing it.
    - linuxftw 7y ago
      > It'd be nice if it would sort itself in favor of the little guy, but I'm just not seeing it. Smaller farms already exist, despite the unfavorable business conditions. If we're talking something like corn or soy beans, we're talking about massive direct subsidies as well. But if we're talking about thing such as berries or apples, there are lots of successful smaller, local producers. Imagine how much more successful those smaller farms would be. And, it might re-invigorate complementary local businesses, such as small tractor dealerships, fertilizer, what have you.
onetimemanytime 7y ago
>>Why don't they pay labour $100M? Because they'll go bankrupt. Big AG can afford to take loans or to buy machinery or to pay extra to labor, most others can't.
bluGill 7y ago
Farmers I know (in California) quit trying to find native workers when at $25/hour they still were not getting anyone to apply, even though that is double the $12/hr McDonalds in pays. That is before you factor in most native workers didn't show up for work regularly. Immigrant workers see $15/hr as riches beyond belief: back home they get about half of that per DAY. To us it looks bad, but to them it is much better than their life before.
- pnutjam 7y ago
  I'm not seeing any indication that wages ever reached $25 / hour. https://www.epi.org/blog/farmworker-wages-in-california-large-gap-between-full-time-equivalent-and-actual-earnings/ https://www.epi.org/blog/farmworker-wages-in-california-larg... https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-fi-farms-immigration/ https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-fi-farms-immigration/ And the job requires at least an hour commute, with 12 hour days. That should require a premium. It's not full-time work.
  - bluGill 7y ago
    That was prices offered to locals, not immigrants. By the time you deal with all the paperwork immigrants are worth less. However they work hard, and are happy to get those wages. Again, by our standards working conditions are bad, but to them they are getting rich...
    - yazan94 7y ago
      > By the time you deal with all the paperwork immigrants are worth less. I don't see how immigrants are worth less after the paperwork. More expensive maybe, but it seems their worth is related to the work they can output and that isn't directly impacted by the paperwork. And maybe they are happy to receive those wages, but let's not pretend that they aren't being taken advantage of if they really are being paid less than minimum wage, work 12+ hours, etc.
      - bluGill 7y ago

> Georgia farmers lost more than a hundred and twenty million dollars > H-2A workers are still among the lowest paid in the country Why don't they pay labour $100M?

Simple_Guy 7y ago

Because to do backbreaking work, labour demands $200 million. the current low price of produce is subsidised by cheap illegal immigrant labour. Just like how the spartans spent their time being warriors while their slaves toiled the field.

swelz 7y ago

I think a larger issue is that food/resource prices may be too low. Obviously, the farmers need to charge for the food/resource, but if they aren't able to turn a profit when properly hiring and paying staff/contractors to work for them, that's an issue. We don't know if the $100MM would cover the new cost or not. I believe there is an issue where we've (the US) relied on such low-cost labor for farms far too long and we do not know how to balance out our supply chain with properly paid labor.

ngold 7y ago
These are the tough questions that are going to have to be answered until another robotic cotton gin is invented.
linuxftw 7y ago
Yes, the food market is heavily distorted. If giant ag businesses that employ immigrants can't make a profit, it means there's too many farms in operation. Farms will close, food prices will rise, and the market will stabilize. A huge positive to this, smaller family-run farms that don't hire immigrant labor would actually be able to compete with the larger industrial farms. We might even be able to reduce total miles food travels farm to table because it's simply not profitable to ship produce cross-country when local farmers can produce at a competitive price.
- salawat 7y ago
  I'm not sure even that would overcome the hyperoptimization capital trap advantage big industrial farms enjoy. I'm still pretty shallow in my understanding of the Ag industry, but the last research I'd done showed that process optimization gaps driven by capital access disparity, and an increasing encroachment of vertically integrating distribution businesses were the major drivers of small farms out of the market. The wage hits through access to capital to pay workers will also hit smaller operations harder in the sense the smaller you are the fewer people feel safe investing in you. It'd be nice if it would sort itself in favor of the little guy, but I'm just not seeing it.
  - linuxftw 7y ago
    > It'd be nice if it would sort itself in favor of the little guy, but I'm just not seeing it. Smaller farms already exist, despite the unfavorable business conditions. If we're talking something like corn or soy beans, we're talking about massive direct subsidies as well. But if we're talking about thing such as berries or apples, there are lots of successful smaller, local producers. Imagine how much more successful those smaller farms would be. And, it might re-invigorate complementary local businesses, such as small tractor dealerships, fertilizer, what have you.

onetimemanytime 7y ago

>>Why don't they pay labour $100M? Because they'll go bankrupt. Big AG can afford to take loans or to buy machinery or to pay extra to labor, most others can't.

bluGill 7y ago

Farmers I know (in California) quit trying to find native workers when at $25/hour they still were not getting anyone to apply, even though that is double the $12/hr McDonalds in pays. That is before you factor in most native workers didn't show up for work regularly. Immigrant workers see $15/hr as riches beyond belief: back home they get about half of that per DAY. To us it looks bad, but to them it is much better than their life before.

pnutjam 7y ago
I'm not seeing any indication that wages ever reached $25 / hour. https://www.epi.org/blog/farmworker-wages-in-california-large-gap-between-full-time-equivalent-and-actual-earnings/ https://www.epi.org/blog/farmworker-wages-in-california-larg... https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-fi-farms-immigration/ https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-fi-farms-immigration/ And the job requires at least an hour commute, with 12 hour days. That should require a premium. It's not full-time work.
- bluGill 7y ago
  That was prices offered to locals, not immigrants. By the time you deal with all the paperwork immigrants are worth less. However they work hard, and are happy to get those wages. Again, by our standards working conditions are bad, but to them they are getting rich...
  - yazan94 7y ago
    > By the time you deal with all the paperwork immigrants are worth less. I don't see how immigrants are worth less after the paperwork. More expensive maybe, but it seems their worth is related to the work they can output and that isn't directly impacted by the paperwork. And maybe they are happy to receive those wages, but let's not pretend that they aren't being taken advantage of if they really are being paid less than minimum wage, work 12+ hours, etc.
    - bluGill 7y ago