6 ms·

I love that I have no idea whether that second paragraph is a real analysis or one making fun of font nerds.

by yodon 8y ago

Alex3917 8y ago
I mean if you watch the documentary Helvetica they do a pretty good job of explaining both the political statement the typeface was trying to make, the backlash against it as it was adopted/hijacked by corporations, and then the post-backlash period where we are now. If you look at the new typeface it's clearly designed primarily for the needs of consumer products and advertising. They could have instead created a typeface that was purposely designed to look bad on consumer products and in advertising, but that's not the direction they went in. That's not an accident, it was a deliberate design decision. Whereas the goal of the original typeface was to create a better society, the goal of the new one is basically to make it onto a Starbucks cup. It's not even a subtle difference, even though it's supposedly just an updated typeface the two are really night and day.
- yodon 8y ago
  Yes, Helvetica is truly a joy to watch - I mean that genuinely - and thank you for the explanation of your analysis
- exolymph 8y ago
  > the political statement the typeface was trying to make Hmm, I think that a typeface is possibly the least effective way to make a political statement. Approximately zero people looking at it will impute a political message.
  - byproxy 8y ago
    That's a good approximate, but I feel these kinds of "statements" are for a select few, and they'll have fun arguing the message's merits or lack-thereof. The rest of the world will continue on with these decisions of taste-makers serving as little more than a slight hum to the harmony of their lives.
  - Cthulhu_ 8y ago
    I do think there are some fonts that develop into having certain associations and meanings; I can't see how a font can be designed to have that association beforehand, but then, I'm not a designer or psychologist. But there's a definite cultural meaning to certain fonts; what springs to mind is Impact (memes), comic sans (trolling / badly designed websites / your aunt's emails), and "gothic" fonts (nazis) (https://www.dafont.com/mtheme.php?id=4 https://www.dafont.com/mtheme.php?id=4). I can imagine that font designers can take these fonts and their cultural associations and craft something new that evokes these.
    - atoav 8y ago
      Interestingly enough the Nazis actually tried to get rid of that old German typeface and were all for sans fonts. But these old German typeface was still so dominant during their regime, that in hindsight people (including neo Nazis) started connecting it with Nazis.
  - qubex 8y ago
    Less true than you might be aware yourself, actually. Think of written Russian. Did you think of beautiful cursive Cyrillic as Pushkin would've written or some blocky reverse-R all caps propaganda text? Wonder why literally everybody associates anything written in "German Gothic” (blackletter, actually, but I digress) is instantly associated with a guy with a Chaplin moustache but who isn't Chaplin? Why Simplified Chinese was designed to look good with printed serifs which interfered with the Traditional script's typography? And I'm not even a graphic designer or a “font nerd”...
    - ChrisRR 8y ago
      I associate German gothic text with beers
      - qubex 8y ago
        And the Metal Umlaut?
    - atoav 8y ago
      Interesting fact: the Nazis actually were trying to get rid of that old German Type and were introducing Sans Fonts a lot. So these old German typefaces are not inherently political and were only half a decade later adopted by neo nazis who have no deeper knowledge of it’s history. Or you could say, the extreme wish the Nazis had to look modern, got replaced by a wish to go back to a wrongly imagined past (which happens quite often on the extreme political fringes)
      - qubex 8y ago
        You’re right, that indeed is very interesting. I have to admit I was totally unaware of this. Thanks for sharing.
- jjeaff 8y ago
  This has all got to be satire, right?

I love that I have no idea whether that second paragraph is a real analysis or one making fun of font nerds.

by yodon 8y ago

I love that I have no idea whether that second paragraph is a real analysis or one making fun of font nerds.

I mean if you watch the documentary Helvetica they do a pretty good job of explaining both the political statement the typeface was trying to make, the backlash against it as it was adopted/hijacked by corporations, and then the post-backlash period where we are now. If you look at the new typeface it's clearly designed primarily for the needs of consumer products and advertising. They could have instead created a typeface that was purposely designed to look bad on consumer products and in advertising, but that's not the direction they went in. That's not an accident, it was a deliberate design decision. Whereas the goal of the original typeface was to create a better society, the goal of the new one is basically to make it onto a Starbucks cup. It's not even a subtle difference, even though it's supposedly just an updated typeface the two are really night and day.

yodon 8y ago
Yes, Helvetica is truly a joy to watch - I mean that genuinely - and thank you for the explanation of your analysis
exolymph 8y ago
> the political statement the typeface was trying to make Hmm, I think that a typeface is possibly the least effective way to make a political statement. Approximately zero people looking at it will impute a political message.
- byproxy 8y ago
  That's a good approximate, but I feel these kinds of "statements" are for a select few, and they'll have fun arguing the message's merits or lack-thereof. The rest of the world will continue on with these decisions of taste-makers serving as little more than a slight hum to the harmony of their lives.
- Cthulhu_ 8y ago
  I do think there are some fonts that develop into having certain associations and meanings; I can't see how a font can be designed to have that association beforehand, but then, I'm not a designer or psychologist. But there's a definite cultural meaning to certain fonts; what springs to mind is Impact (memes), comic sans (trolling / badly designed websites / your aunt's emails), and "gothic" fonts (nazis) (https://www.dafont.com/mtheme.php?id=4 https://www.dafont.com/mtheme.php?id=4). I can imagine that font designers can take these fonts and their cultural associations and craft something new that evokes these.
  - atoav 8y ago
    Interestingly enough the Nazis actually tried to get rid of that old German typeface and were all for sans fonts. But these old German typeface was still so dominant during their regime, that in hindsight people (including neo Nazis) started connecting it with Nazis.
- qubex 8y ago
  Less true than you might be aware yourself, actually. Think of written Russian. Did you think of beautiful cursive Cyrillic as Pushkin would've written or some blocky reverse-R all caps propaganda text? Wonder why literally everybody associates anything written in "German Gothic” (blackletter, actually, but I digress) is instantly associated with a guy with a Chaplin moustache but who isn't Chaplin? Why Simplified Chinese was designed to look good with printed serifs which interfered with the Traditional script's typography? And I'm not even a graphic designer or a “font nerd”...
  - ChrisRR 8y ago
    I associate German gothic text with beers
    - qubex 8y ago
      And the Metal Umlaut?
  - atoav 8y ago
    Interesting fact: the Nazis actually were trying to get rid of that old German Type and were introducing Sans Fonts a lot. So these old German typefaces are not inherently political and were only half a decade later adopted by neo nazis who have no deeper knowledge of it’s history. Or you could say, the extreme wish the Nazis had to look modern, got replaced by a wish to go back to a wrongly imagined past (which happens quite often on the extreme political fringes)
    - qubex 8y ago
      You’re right, that indeed is very interesting. I have to admit I was totally unaware of this. Thanks for sharing.
jjeaff 8y ago
This has all got to be satire, right?